30 Years and the Sex is Hotter Than Ever – Transcript
30 years and the sex is hotter than ever.
One of the biggest sex and relationship myths out there is the notion that lifelong, passionate sex is an impossibility. Or that human biology played a dirty trick on us all, made us sexually attracted to each other for two years so that we could procreate, and then dropped off, never to return.
Bullshit. I get that this is most people’s experience, but most people do not live in Anami Land and have no idea what’s possible. The purpose of this podcast is to show them. Most people accept the common narrative and the picture they see of all the couples around them having no sex, very little sex, lame sex, and certainly not life-changing sex, which is the Anami gold standard. They don’t know what they don’t know.
My big barometric question to people always is: Does sex leave you feeling rejuvenated, energized, transformed, ecstatic, like it changed your life and you want to go to the gym afterward? If not, you’re doing it wrong.
In Anami Land, sex gives us energy and the fuel we need to achieve, create, and dominate in every element of our lives.
In Anami Land, we believe that every couple can have lifelong, passionate sex, with rock-hard erections, multiple orgasms, and very juicy, lubricating pussies, well into their nineties without the aid of any pharmaceuticals.
Over the decades of doing and teaching this work, I have created a formula to make this a reality for everyone. I shared about going on a transformative fitness journey over the past year. I lost weight, got shredded, and am fitter than I’ve ever been in my life. How did I do it?
I hired a trainer, and I followed a formula. Calories and protein in, balanced with activity out, and voilà, you have a fit-as-fuck body. It is a repeatable formula, and anyone can do it if they put their mind and body to it.
Just like with my work. There are repeatable steps to take you into well-fucked man and well-fucked woman status. I’m always showcasing our Well-F**ked All Stars on the podcast to show you how these people, despite having six children, high-powered jobs, and whatever plethora of excuses most people use to rationalize why they are not having good sex, or any sex, did it.
This woman, despite having extensive sexual trauma and never having an orgasm before, did it. This man, who hadn’t been able to last longer than five minutes and whose marriage was about to end, did it.
And so can you.
In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Jeff, our Well-F**ked All Star of the Well-F**ked All Star Couple, Jeff and Jen. He was on a solo episode last year called “How to Dickmatize Your Woman.” Great episode, highly recommend it.
They did a year of Anami, where they signed up for all my courses and dedicated themselves to upleveling their sex life. They have been together for 30 years, and now the sex is hotter than ever.
In our conversation, Jeff shares what Anami well-fucked way-of-life concepts they have taken on and now live by.
KIM: Welcome, Jeff. It’s great to have you back.
JEFF: Thank you, Kim. I’m happy to be here.
KIM: There are so many things we can talk to you about. We wanted to focus on this notion of being together for decades as a couple, and in your case, three decades, and having sex that’s better and hotter than ever, which goes against what most people think is going to be their lives and what is most people’s lives.
Tell us about what it’s like to be with somebody for that long. What are the things that you think are most important to keeping that sizzle and simmer going this many years into everything?
JEFF: Most important in maintaining a relationship is definitely communication. You have to talk to each other about what you want. We’ve been together for so long, but we’ve only really been involved with you for about the past two years.
The first 28 years, we had decent communication. I wouldn’t say we were unhappy with anything, but ever since we started working on all this stuff, it has been a whirlwind. Our whole lives are different now. Ever since I shared a video of yours with her a couple of years ago, the communication has gotten precise about what I want in terms of a relationship with a woman.
All of those inhibitions and self-conscious stuff and society’s damage that was done to us about sharing who we are and the things that we want, fantasies and things like that, that never really got shared in the past because of shame and whatever. We all suffer from that stuff—maybe not all of us, but a lot of us do. The Madonna/whore complex was really powerful for me and Jen.
Learning how to talk to each other and getting comfortable with the language. Even the words that get used in talking about sex. We’re both 50 years old, and I feel like in the past, we were like children talking about sex. Now it’s just straight to the point. Everybody knows what the other wants, and it’s actually happening.
If you want to have a hot, crazy sex life, you have to talk to each other. You’ve got to tell each other what you want. Otherwise, you’re just stabbing in the dark at things.
I have a pretty creative streak in me with coming up with fun, elaborate date nights, and I’m always trying to impress her and come up with something that blows away whatever we did last time. That seems to keep things fun for both of us too.
Because of the level that we’ve gotten to with our connection, and that simmer that’s always happening because of it, it doesn’t get boring. I think, “I love this woman. I can’t wait to see her every day.” Every day, coming home from work, I can’t wait to see her face. In the past, she would ask, “Hey, you want to come shopping with me?” “Nah, I’m going to stay home.” Now I go everywhere. Anytime she asks me to do something, I go. No matter what it is, I just want to be with her.
It’s not even a spark; it’s a flame. It’s there. It’s never going out. It’s constant.
KIM: What do you think changed from before, when you would have said, “No, I’ll just stay home and watch TV,” or whatever?
JEFF: The connection that we’ve got because of the sex that we’re having and where our relationship has gone, and it’s not just the physical aspect of it. It’s just being let in. Our glass is clear. It’s more than that though. It’s more like I’m on the other side of her glass. I’m on her side. We’re so honest with each other, and our relationship has a purpose. We don’t have sex anymore; we practice sex.
It’s like our marriage has taken on a new meaning. It’s not the same thing anymore. It’s just not the same anymore. We’re so connected to each other that I just want to be around her. I don’t know. I was in my head a lot more in the past, not feeling connected to her, and wondering what was going on. There might have been thoughts of, “Is there infidelity going on?” and things like that, because stuff wasn’t so great with us. And I don’t feel like that at all anymore. She wants to be with me. I want to be with her.
It’s just all the things that we learned through your classes, where we regularly have connection dates. We don’t even schedule them; they’re just always happening. As soon as something comes up, we talk about it. We rarely get in fights anymore. It’s almost like we’re a new couple again.
KIM: Right. When you talk about planning these elaborate dates, give me some examples of that. I know part of the whole Anami way of life is having regularly scheduled sex dates and three-hour sex dates, and then beyond that into sex weekends and sex weeks, and you guys have taken that on and run with it.
There are people who hear about scheduling sex who get resistant and think, “Ew, that’s not sexy.” But you take it to a whole other dimension and make it the sexiest thing ever.
JEFF: Yeah. The scheduled sex dates work for us very well because we’re both very busy and have teenage kids. I run a business, and she’s got a full-time job herself. Like everybody else, we’re very busy.
Scheduling, you would think it would be un-sexy and not romantic. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday are the nights that we have sex. We know that those are the days this is going to happen, and there is a day off between two of the sex dates. Anticipation grows then, and I can’t wait to get my hands on her. It’s nice to have a little break to build that back up again.
That’s certainly helped us with the regularity, and it doesn’t get boring. It’s like getting in the lab, figuring stuff out, and working on different things. There could be a theme sometimes for some of it. We’ll go out and make an overnight trip somewhere to different shows. We’re really into burlesque stuff. We’ll get on an airplane to go somewhere for a date night.
I really enjoy planning crazy stuff and blowing her mind with fancy gifts and crazy destinations and expensive hotels and all that stuff. That’s a regular thing for us. That’s usually more the sex weekend trips. We try to go all out. That’s all based around a hotel room somewhere or maybe outside someplace, but we try to go overboard with all of it.
She’s agreed to have sex outside. In fact, that’s a turn-on for her. She likes the outdoor thing. If we know Monday is going to be a sex night, I’ll send her a message during the day, like, “Are you game for something different tonight?” She knows it’s a sex date night, and I’ll spring something on her, like, “We’re going to do something different.” She’s given me permission to do that, and she’s either going to say yes or no. She knows what she’s getting herself into by saying yes.
I’ll tell her generally what she should be wearing and what time to be ready to leave the house, and that’s all the description she’s going to get. That could be by, say, 9:00 p.m.
She’ll be wearing what she’s supposed to wear. I might have a backpack full of stuff or something that’s already in the car. I’ll put a blindfold on her, so she doesn’t know where we’re going.
KIM: Do you do that all the time, or is this one particular instance?
JEFF: No, not all the time, but there have been a few times where there’s a blindfold in the car. You’ve got to be careful with that because if people see me driving her around blindfolded, they might think something funny, right?
KIM: [Laughs]
JEFF: So, a good trick is, if you tie a blindfold around her head, it looks a certain way, but if it’s one of those sleep masks that women wear, no one is going to think anything of that. Just something to know because I got some weird looks in a construction zone once with her blindfolded in the car. I was trying to duck her head down.
Anyway, I was going to take her to this pond where she went to feed the ducks as a kid. It was near her mother’s house, and she didn’t know that’s where we were going, and we ended up parking in a place. She got out, and I took the blindfold off. It took her a few minutes to figure out where she was, and she still didn’t know, and we were in her mother’s yard. It was funny.
Then we walked down to the duck pond. She finally figured out where we were, and there were cars zooming around. I had scoped this all out while I was at work, “If you shine your headlights into this area, can you see back there …” I really figured it out so we wouldn’t end up in jail, right?
So I knew where to go in the park, and now she knew where she was, of course, and there was lots of traffic and people walking by, but they couldn’t see us. They could’ve seen us if they knew where to look and the headlights lit us up for a second, but then the car turned, and it was like, are we going to get caught? And she loved that.
KIM: Yeah, yeah.
JEFF: That idea that we might get caught. Blow jobs on balconies happen a lot in broad daylight. She’s into the “Are we going to get caught?” thing. So I like to play with that as often as we can.
There was another one where, I don’t know if she was blindfolded or not, but we went to a city park. We live in the suburbs, but there’s a municipal park with a playground and a baseball field and all that stuff. I went to town on her on this park bench, and there were people walking by. We would quickly stop as needed and then jump back into it. It was an almost-getting-caught thing.
There was another one at a pond somewhere else, and she was completely naked, walking around at night. That’s her jam, the outdoor thing and feeling like this little fairy nymph woman running around in that setting, and that was really hot.
KIM: What about some of the more luxurious adventures? Tell me about those.
JEFF: We’ve been to La Faena in Miami, which is definitely our favorite hotel in the US, and we’re going to be back there again in February. That’s a sex weekend thing. It’s extremely beautiful. It’s an art gallery–type hotel with a balcony, so I’m sure something will happen out there.
There’s a spa, so we’ll get body treatments there, and it’ll just be totally relaxing. The focus of the whole trip is on sex.
We haven’t been there in two years. We’ve got way more tricks up our sleeve now, so that should be pretty crazy.
We went to the Wynn in Vegas to see Dita Von Teese, and we renewed our vows there in November and got married again. That was awesome. I’ve told that story before. I was parading her down Las Vegas Boulevard with this see-through blouse on, and it was like the Red Sea parting. All these guys had their jaws hanging open. “Look at this guy! Oh my god, this guy’s got it all figured out!” It was the proudest thing ever.
We would never have done something like that in the past. I wouldn’t let my wife walk around with guys gawking at her, and now she’s like my prize possession. I’m just not threatened by it. It’s like a feather in my cap for somebody to pay her a compliment.
That’s a super nice hotel in Vegas. We’ve stayed at Casa Cipriani in New York City. That’s a really high-end, old-feeling jazz-clubby place. Lots of Hollywood celebrities are there. We play dress up and eat fancy food and have good sex.
Our recent one was at this private BDSM dungeon that we had all to ourselves, which was pretty crazy. The place is the size of a basketball court. There’s a dungeon that we had access to. You can rent it and have a party with 100 people in there, if you want to, but we had it to ourselves. There’s a bedroom suite connected to it, and it’s like an Airbnb deal, so somebody made breakfast for us and we DoorDash’d and ordered Uber Eats food to stay alive. There was a shower.
This dungeon had every different item of furniture. There was like a 10-foot St. Andrew’s cross in there and what the caretaker called a gift shop, with all these tools and implements and everything you can think of to use in a dungeon setting. It’s all super clean and autoclaved stuff.
I own all that stuff, so we brought a lot of our own things. We had these really awesome photography session opportunities and pushed some boundaries and tried some new things. It had this kick-ass stereo system. It was amazing. It was like something out of a movie. That’s more my jam, that stuff, but she’s a willing participant and open to all of it. She learned some things about herself that trip, and we had a great time. It was really awesome.
KIM: I love that.
JEFF: Yeah, that was great.
KIM: You made a comment that you can’t believe what she says yes to. She’s the ultimate yes woman, and the sense of availability and insatiability has been transformed. Couples can feel like they get into these ruts of negotiations and obligation, but you’re both just a yes man and a yes woman to the extreme.
Tell me about her receptivity to everything with you.
JEFF: I think if you asked her, she would probably say that the Madonna/whore complex did a number on her, and, I guess, decades of my influence on her and squashing our sex life, just having that in our heads. I think I got lucky in the sense that she’s a really sexual person and now it’s all coming out.
You talk a lot about women feeling safe. That’s a tough word, I think, for men to understand, because we always think it’s a physical thing, like you’ve got to feel secure. And I don’t think that’s what it is.
KIM: Well, I don’t know if I use the word safety, because I feel like that has other connotations over the last few years. “Stay safe!” I think it’s more about building trust and connection.
JEFF: That is exactly what it is. Or maybe Jen has used the words “feeling safe,” and it just took a while for that to sink in and for me to understand it means it is safe for her to let me know who she is and let me into her fantasies and her desires and what she thinks.
The Madonna/whore complex is still a thing. She doesn’t want me to lose respect for her, so she needs to feel safe that she can show me—I’m always using the phrase “Treat her like a whore,” and all that stuff. I like to say it. It sounds like I’m getting my point across if we use those words. She’s got this collar that says “slut” on it. I love when she wears all that stuff. I want her to be my slut. She wants to do the same thing. We’re both super comfortable—
KIM: These are fun words to play with because they have such a charge. In our culture, if a man wants to insult a woman but knows nothing about her sexual history, he’ll call her a slut. “You slut.” What the fuck? It’s just become this epithet. You think it’s going to hurt a woman because of all this programming and shaming around women’s sexuality, so that’s instinctively going to be a soft spot in most women who haven’t done this conscious work.
The act of using these words or wearing a shirt or a collar that says “slut” on it is like saying, “Fuck you. I’m fucking me, he’s fucking me, and I don’t give a fuck what you think.” All the major religions certainly enforce that dichotomy of Madonna/whore; they all do. Maybe in more tribal indigenous cultures, you don’t have that so much. They have more of a reverence and genuine understanding of what sex is, or ancient Tantra and Taoism, where it’s a whole esoteric practice.
But in the modern world, no, it’s a total control mechanism, so there’s a lot of fun in flaunting those things and deliberately wearing so-called slutty clothing and going out and being slutty. Being slutty, in most cases, is just a healthy, voracious expression that women are denied because they’re only allowed those two poles and those two extremes.
JEFF: For sure. Monday nights are usually lingam night.
KIM: Slut night? [Laughs]
JEFF: Yeah. I bought her this tiny baby-doll shirt that says “cum slut” on it. She’s got a “blow-job queen” shirt.
KIM: And she wears these out in public?
JEFF: No. That’s her blow job outfit. And it never gets old. Seeing her wear this thing is amazing, and she’s happy to wear it. I don’t know; she might wear that in public. Depends on where we’re going, I guess.
KIM: It’d be fun to have a night where that’s your mission. You wear these clothes and go out and just see what happens.
JEFF: Yeah. I’ll put the shirt on her blindfolded. She won’t know what she’s wearing.
KIM: You go out to a bar somewhere and have a shirt on that says, “Blow job lover,” or “Blow job king,” and hers is “Blow job queen,” and you just have fun and see what happens. That stuff is very therapeutic for busting out of these spells and shackles of taboo that so many people get locked up in.
JEFF: Yeah, for sure. Everything is so out in the open.
KIM: You mentioned going to a club. There was another couple who had done, I think, a year of Anami, like you and Jen, and I think they reached out. You were in the same city, and you went out for an evening.
What was it like to be with another couple who had the same vocabulary and language and the same mission?
JEFF: Yeah. That was Scott and Emily Hadley. They’re also students of yours. They’re big fans of this band, the Lords of Acid, and they were touring. They’re from Europe, and they were traveling around, following this band. The Grateful Dead has the Dead Heads, and I don’t know what you call the Lords of Acid fans, but they were following them around. It’s a super sex-themed techno band.
Anyway, they were going to be in New York City, and they knew that we were from there, so they asked, “Hey, would you guys be our guests and come meet us at this thing?” We said, “Sure.” We didn’t even know them—
KIM: You knew them from the salon. You’d seen Scott around.
JEFF: Yeah, we knew of each other, and we knew each other’s stories and what they were about, and they’d also had great successes with you. We were excited to meet them, and they wanted to meet us, and we felt like we knew each other already from doing all this stuff.
We were their guests for that show, so we took them out to dinner, and we had a great time talking. It’s interesting how that happens. Talking openly about everything that’s going on, like private bedroom stuff, with people you just really met ten minutes ago, and it just felt so comfortable to talk about because we were both in that place.
His wife was sitting there in this blouse that was completely see-through lace, and we were in this restaurant and people were looking. It was like, “This is who we are, man. Take a good look.” He’s this towering giant, like this huge guy [laughs], so I don’t think anyone was going to say anything anyway.
We just had a great time talking to them about all this stuff, and the girls were yakking it up. I talked to him about all our successes. He picked my brain about different things. I’m more interested in the BDSM stuff, and men are always asking me questions about that. We talked a little bit about that.
And we went to this show, which was a lot of fun. We were standing up in front, and a crazy, eccentric group of people were at this thing. During one of the songs—I believe the song was called “Pussy,”—the singer invited all the women to come up on stage and sing with her and dance and just get crazy.
It would’ve been out of character for Jen years ago to do something like that, but not that night. She and Emily got up there. They had clothes on, but it was like this totally crazy pole-dancing, strip-tease thing they were doing up on stage, and people were filming it. People have my wife on film. I don’t know if it was on television. It was definitely on Instagram because I saw it on the band’s page.
She’s fucking crazy, man. She’s not inhibited by anything and crazy in a good way. I was super happy, impressed with her, and proud. It’s like we’re going deeper into this thing and becoming more liberated and comfortable with the whole thing. I was grinning from ear to ear watching my wife do that on stage in front of everybody. It was amazing. Totally out of character.
I don’t know if Emily regularly does that, but she was up there too. It was really something to see. It was a great night.
KIM: How about, sexually speaking, orgasmic achievements for both of you? We can start with her. I’m enjoying painting this picture that is contrary to what a lot of people might think of, “Okay, married for 30 years.” You guys have been together for 30 years and are hotter than ever. You’re having your peak sexual experiences now.
Share some examples of that, orgasmically speaking, for her and then for you, hitting these peaks at this stage of your relationship.
JEFF: Yeah. She has done quite a bit of work, and her G-spot orgasms are crazy. Her G-spot orgasms have gotten to the point where once they start, they don’t really stop. It’s not like an event, like they’re building up to a thing and then it happens. We’re getting into a rhythm, and it’s like she goes into this orbit; that’s where we are now. That’s the way that works.
There are moments that a wave of pleasure will happen, and I guess we would call that a G-spot orgasm; it’s like this rhythmic thing, and it’s over a hundred of them. She eventually will say, “Okay, I’m good.” It’s not like the big show happens and then that’s the end, which is what sex used to be. Now it’s like we’re into the practice of this.
She’ll say that the feeling of it is intensifying. It’s becoming increased. The energy, those waves of pleasure, have become more pronounced. They’re much different now than they were a year ago.
Her cervical experiences are definitely taking off. I can make cervical contact with her, and she loves to have intercourse for that. There’s crying, there’s laughing. There’s that emotional release that happens. She’ll tell me that the cervical and G-spot things feel similar, like the cervical one is more of a radiating feeling of energy moving through her, and the G-spot ones are more wave-like.
When there’s a good cervical session, she’s really happy the next day. It’s like a therapy session. She really is. And I notice it. We do this a lot, and I’m still seeing it. Those are different. They’re very powerful.
She’ll have what she calls a heart orgasm, or an energy-moving thing. Maybe it’s a cervical feeling, but it’s more central in her body and she can feel that moving out and up into her head. She had an episode last year where that happened—I think I told you about it—where energy shot up into her head and out of her third eye, and her arms were tingling for half an hour. She’s really good at moving energy and has gotten very in tune with her body and feeling things, to the point where she’s having G-spot orgasms much easier than she did in the past.
KIM: And how often are you all having sex?
JEFF: At least four times a week, like clockwork. There’s an unwritten rule that quickies can happen whenever I want them to.
KIM: In addition to the four days?
JEFF: In addition to that. There’s just so much sex happening that there’s not really time to do that. I’m running a business.
KIM: And your sex dates, how long do they last?
JEFF: At least two hours each time, usually three. Saturday night is our three-hour sex date, so that’s where we block out time for sure for that.
I want to say in the beginning of practice, they were all three hours or longer. We’ve gotten so good at it that they don’t need to be, if that makes sense. She’s satiated in less time than that, and we’re going to do it again tomorrow. There’s no need to burn the midnight oil every night.
KIM: Right. You also talked about something we talk about a lot in Anami Land— the changes that happen in your outer life that are a result of this alchemical, internal combustion that you generate. This energy super-fuel is transmitted through your sexual connection. We see these results in our business, in our career, in our family, in our children, in our finances, and even in our bodies. You mentioned that you recently lost a bunch of weight.
JEFF: Yeah. Jen is a 50-year-old bombshell. She’s really in great shape. She’s in the gym five days a week, and we both have an athletic background to begin with, but she’s really honed in on getting herself squared away. I was not in tip-top shape prior to November of last year. After spending a lot of time on our relationship, I wanted to look like I belonged standing next to her. That prompted me to take on a nutrition coach and get myself squared away too. So I lost 46 pounds since last November. Now I guess I look like I belong standing next to her. I’m still in the middle of working on all that.
We’re going to be switching up my nutrition plan and changing up some weightlifting routines and putting muscle on. It’s not really to lose weight; it’s to just tone up and make everything look better. And that’s for her. It’s for me too, but yeah. In the past, I paid a lot of attention to politics, and I really don’t anymore; I pay attention to her.
You get one life, and once this is over, that’s it. We’re getting older, and we’re going to have to slow down a little bit, but she wants me in shape because she’s damned and determined, she’ll say, to make sure that I’m fucking her when she’s 80. I have no doubt that is what’s going to happen.
I know you’re a fitness fan yourself. You’ve got to keep your body working, and you can do all these things.
KIM: Well, I love that part of the motivation to be fit is so that you can keep having epic, marathon sex well into your eighties and beyond.
JEFF: Absolutely. She has full access to my ass whenever she wants it, and there’s prostate play happening regularly here. Prostate orgasms are crazy. If men don’t know what that is, they really need to.
I guess some women might have some issues with getting involved with that, but she doesn’t, and it’s amazing. It turns things up to 11.
Having penile orgasms with prostate stimulation is insane. I have a feeling it’s something similar to the G-spot thing for women. I have no idea; it’s just the way we explain it to each other. Yeah. There’s no going back. That’s in the game plan now for sure. My orgasms are way more intense than they were.
KIM: And you have stamina, right?
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: That was the thing you were working on.
JEFF: My stamina is unflappable. I can go as long as she wants me to go. I know that sounds like I’m bragging. It’s just the truth. I can fuck her as long as she wants me to.
KIM: So we’re talking hours? You could be having intercourse for a couple of hours straight?
JEFF: I could probably go longer than that. I don’t know that we have ever done it that long. We don’t normally get into just intercourse and stick with that. We’ll do that later on, but we like to change it up; there’s lots of moving around and laughing and falling off the bed and shit. Keeping it fun.
But yeah, I can have sex with her as long as she wants me to, and I have very good control over that.
I’m working on the semen retention thing and separating orgasm from ejaculation.
KIM: It’s a very high level of skill to cultivate. But as I say, the most important sexual skill for men is stamina and unflappability so that, no matter what position that ass is in, you’ve still got it covered and you’re not going to sway.
JEFF: It definitely is.
KIM: Yeah. Is there anything else that would help describe what life looks like for a couple who’s been together for this long, where their sex life is off the charts? Any other stories or examples that show people what that looks like these days in your life?
JEFF: She doesn’t say no to anything. She’s really sexually adventurous, and that’s fun. She’s open to all of it. Anything that we want to do, she’s a yes. She’s submissive by nature and wants me to dominate her, and that means I’m flying the plane and directing where this is all going, and that works for me.
KIM: Let’s touch a little bit on that. You really embraced the polarity of your masculine and feminine energies. I know that in her day-to-day life, Jen works a high-powered position where she has control over things. But when she comes back to you, she allows you to be the alpha, the dominant, and she craves that and is nourished by that.
Speak a bit to that dynamic. It plays out in every single relationship, and right now, there’s so much messaging that discourages people from owning these roles and shames them. “All masculinity is toxic” is the messaging that we get. But you guys have really run with that, and I’d say that’s a big part of your chemistry and connection and attraction.
JEFF: For sure. I’m not just masculine with her. I’m an alpha male with men. I lead men. I run a company. I have men who work for me. I sit on boards of directors of different groups, and I’ve always been that guy.
She’s an alpha female. She’s the same way. We’re both dominant out in the world. In this postfeminist era, it’s hard to figure out how to do that with a dominant woman. She’d say, “I’m that person in the world, but when we’re in the bedroom, I’m not her. I’m someone else.” It was hard for me to understand that. I’ve given myself permission to be like that with her and see her that way, and now I understand it better. We don’t have that polarity issue. I think it’s probably pretty exaggerated between the two of us.
In the Couples Salon—the polarity section—there’s some light BDSM play that you teach, and we use that too. That’s a big help for people who want to explore that.
If that’s not really who you are, you can just use that as a role-playing tool. She is super submissive. She wants to be taken. And I want to take her. So I do.
KIM: [Laughs] Any parting words for people? Inspiration for this notion that yes, you can be together for decades, and things can be hotter than ever.
JEFF: Yeah. If there’s some level of attraction, if there’s some glimmer of hope that you’ve got something left in your relationship, you can probably breathe life back into it. Once this gets going and you get that spark lit, it turns into an inferno.
It just snowballs into more and more. There’s definitely got to be a physical attraction between people, and if there isn’t, maybe you guys communicating that you want to have a connection will spark some interest to get yourself in shape.
She looks fucking great, man. She’s got a great ass. In platform heels with a teenager’s ass on her, she’s amazing. It’s easy when she looks like that, and she’ll say the same thing about me. She’s physically attracted to me.
If you can get that going, one thing begets the next. You’ve got to want to do it, and you need to talk to each other, and somebody needs to make the first move.
KIM: And then somebody needs to say yes.
JEFF: If you’re the man and you have a submissive woman, that’s just going to help you because you’re leading and showing her that you’re serious. Jen apparently always wanted me to do this, and I didn’t know that. She didn’t know how to say it, and she didn’t want to rock the boat. But once I did, there was a little hesitation, like, “Is he serious about this? Does he really want me to act like this and wear these things?” Now she knows and, holy shit, it is the best. We really did a good thing.
You did a good thing. You did this for me.
KIM: Amazing. Thank you, Jeff.
JEFF: Thanks, Kim.
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