TRANSCRIPT
One of the staples of the Anami way of life is having extended sex dates.
A weekly, non-negotiable three-hour sex date.
A quarterly sex weekend.
And an annual sex week.
Why?
Having time and space to devote to each other and your relationship allows you to go deep, and discover things you wouldn’t otherwise get to when you are rushing to finish before your kids bust in the door, or when you are exhausted at the end of the day and about to pass out, but want to tick the “we’re in a relationship and we have sex for at least five minutes!” box off your to-do list.
You and your relationship are worth more than that.
You’ll never tap into the magical places I speak about:
- Of psychedelic orgasms that are massive emotional releases full of ecstasy and make you feel like you “saw God”
- Harvesting your sexual energy to tap into your creative genius
- Feeling closer and more connected to yourselves, each other and the world at large, than you ever have…
Unless you CREATE the time and space for them to reveal themselves to you.
When couples first hear about my prescription for even a weekly 3-hour sex date, they often balk.
“What? Three hours? Of just sex??”
Yep!
Not dinner. Not a walk in the park.
Just you—and your partner—naked and touching each other in some way.
For three hours.
“You mean three hours of intercourse?”
Eventually, sure!
It’s typically a mix of massage, manual play, oral play and yes, plenty of intercourse.
When couples first try it on, it seems daunting to fill three hours with…each other’s bodies.
After they get into the swing of it, the three hours pass by in the blink of an eye.
Because… once they truly get that deep with each other, they harvest such a massive amount of quality, sexual life-force energy that is psychedelic, rejuvenating, healing and transcendent and life-changing, that they don’t know how they ever lived without it.
And then they start planning their sex weekends.
And then they graduate up to sex weeks.
**
Jeff and Jen have been married for 30 years.
They found my work last year and have been on an Anami pilgrimage ever since!
They’ve taken ALL of my salons over the past year.
They happen to be endurance athletes.
So when they heard my philosophy of multi-hour and multi-day sex dates, it was game on!
They have several hours-long sex dates a week, have been doing quarterly, epic sex weekends and recently they went on a 5-day sex date to Tulum, because the weekends… just. weren’t. long. enough.
You’ll hear them share their story of turning around their relationship of three decades, how they become ultra-sex marathoners and what a 5-day sex date looks like.
**
Well-F**ked All Stars Jen and Jeff
KIM: All right! Welcome, Jeff and Jen. It’s amazing to have you.
JEFF: Thanks.
JEN: Thanks. It’s a pleasure to be here.
KIM: You guys have had some epic transformations and amazing stories in your journey. You said you went on a five-day sex date because your sex weekends aren’t quite enough time for you to do everything you want to do with each other, and here I am still trying to convince people that a three-hour sex date is something they ought to prioritize every week.
We’d love to hear all about that, but before we get into the details of that and what a five-day sex date looks like, where were you before? Tell us about your journey to get to where you are now.
JEN: Well, I think it started with a text that I sent my husband after I had been on a bit of a journey, putting myself back together after some medical stuff. I had lost a bunch of weight. I hired a nutrition coach. Jeff and I were texting, and I said something to the effect of, “Have you taken a look at me? You should really get on that.”
It was a wake-up call for him—
KIM: So what, you hadn’t noticed these changes, Jeff?
JEFF: Well, we were coming out of a dry spell where she was sick for a while, and it created a drought in our intimacy. You end up in a rut and kind of get used to that new normal. You don’t really notice somebody losing weight, right? Even with your own self. If you’re looking at yourself in the mirror every day, you may not see it.
KIM: I notice! [Laughs]
JEFF: All right. Well, I notice that you did too, but I haven’t seen you in a while.
JEN: Hold on. Kim, I lost 43 pounds, okay? I was a size two and I had abs. I said, “I think you should get on this.”
JEFF: We were in a weird place, and our intimacy just kind of sucked at that point. I don’t know that I didn’t notice; we just weren’t in that mindset, and apparently she was. She prompted the change.
JEN: Well, I had been putting myself back together brick by brick, and I was doing it for myself because I had been in this terrible state. I’m not somebody to accept that as my lot in life. I had gotten to the point where I had done so much work on myself that I really wanted him to notice. I started saying things to him like, “Yeah, I did this for me, but I also did this for you because I want you to notice me. I want to be your dream girl. This is part of it.” I think that shook him up.
JEFF: It did.
KIM: And then what happened?
JEFF: That kind of prompted a little bit of a spark in the bedroom again, but nothing like the fucking sparks that we have since we’ve known you. But this was before you. We just kind of went back to old patterns. I had, oddly enough, been introduced to you through a really strange source earlier that year. It was January 2022, while Jen was in the middle of doing this transformation, getting herself back in order.
It was this guy from the fighting world. I’m a martial artist and a firearms enthusiast and do a lot of training with that. I know a lot of high-speed, dangerous people. He’s a guy I follow, kind of like you. [Laughs] Dangerous in a different way.
He actually mentioned you on Instagram, and it was very out of character and a bizarre conversation that happened. A lot of his followers were angry about it because it wasn’t typical.
KIM: So he said something about sex and intimacy being important.
JEFF: He mentioned you. His girlfriend is a past student of yours. So this guy was talking about Kim, and he’s the kind of guy whose every word you hang on. He mentioned your name and I immediately Googled it and said, “Wow, this is interesting. This isn’t typical subject matter from this guy.”
I don’t know if I’m a self-help guy, but it sounded interesting. I mean, who doesn’t like sex? And that’s kind of what you’re selling here.
KIM: People present this to their partners and they say, “Oh, my partner is just not into it. They don’t want to have a better sex life.” Who says that?
JEFF: I don’t know.
KIM: Right? Who does that? I don’t get it. I really don’t.
JEFF: I didn’t approach Jen with it at the time. I was just quietly watching your videos. I got put on your mailing list. Then that kind of dwindled away. That lasted a month or two, and the emails were probably getting buried.
Then she made that comment about, “Have you looked at me? You better get on this.” I thought, “Hm.” [Laughs]
We do a lot of outdoor stuff, and we were going to do an overnight hike and needed a couple of weeks to plan that.
Something came over me and I said, “You know what? Why don’t we just stay local and go out to this spa that’s out on the east end of Long Island?” It’s kind of this famous, fancy place. There’s a hotel there and all that. We did that. That was unknowingly our first sex weekend.
I don’t think I even knew what that term was, but we kind of went there. She asked me to get on that and I did.
JEN: I got lingerie, a nice dress for dinner. It’s a nice place, and we were going to have treatments at the spa, go eat out, you know. We had a nice room. You could hear the ocean in the background. It was a nice weekend. It was actually on the car ride home that he mentioned you. That was the first time he mentioned you to me, right at the end of this great weekend, where we felt connected.
He sent me the podcast where you said, “When one of you wants to grow …” and he said, “Don’t take this as threatening or anything. I’m not leaving, so ignore that part. Just listen to what it says.”
I listened to it. It said if you don’t want to grow your relationship … you might not have one eventually. There’s never been a time in my life where he’s made a suggestion to better our relationship and I’ve said no. Who the fuck would ever say no to anything if your partner comes to you and says, “Let’s try this”? I’ll say, “I’m in, whatever it is.”
I had never heard of you. I had never listened to a podcast. I didn’t know anything. I jumped in with both feet.
He led us from the very beginning through the Couples Salon. But since that wasn’t starting fast enough, he said, “Let me just go buy this G-spot Salonette and let’s start working on that.”
Anything he does, he does so much research, and he’s so thorough and meticulous. This is why he has a successful business. He was so intense and so driven to make this happen for me, to find pleasure sources in me that I had never been aware of. Even though we were doing everything wrong initially—we had no idea because we were just watching the videos, and he was bringing in all this other content from all over the interweb—eventually we started the Coming Together Salon and then—boom—it was game on. We were doing the connecting dates, doing the homework.
We don’t half-ass anything. We throw our whole asses in. We were doing the work.
KIM: You guys are long-distance marathoners, right? If that’s right, it’s an ethos of all in, push it to the limit. We love endurance.
JEFF: We’ve done some soul-searching shit in life, and there’s a daredevil streak. We’re kind of high-adrenaline-type people. This kind of feels like one of those things.
In fact, I’ve done physical things way harder. I’m a mountain bike racer and she’s a trail runner, so that kind of stuff. Extreme sports. And we treat sex the same way, I guess.
KIM: As an extreme sport? [Laughs]
JEN: The problem initially was when we were trying to figure things out, it could easily go on for three or four hours and then I would say, “Oh my God, I’m so sore.” Because we’re ultra-endurance athletes, but my poor vagina was not used to that kind of workout, so sometimes I said, “I need a break. I need a day. I need something.”
It was funny because we were really, really trying, and we were very goal-oriented, and that was probably 90% of our problem. We were so attached to the goal that it was very difficult to let go and flow and figure out what all that stuff meant that you talk about initially.
KIM: Right. But you did get there?
JEN: Oh yeah.
KIM: I love how devoted you were. I would like that to be a great example for all people, but you’re saying that impeded a bit of just tuning in energetically. What exactly does that mean?
JEN: I would say that we’re so used to pushing and just go, go, go. Most of our relationship—we’ve been together for 30 years—our energy has always been projected outward on the things that we’re doing. We’re always traveling on the same road but not necessarily together and connected. I would say neither one of us is normally relaxed in that way or introspective. In other ways, yes, but a lot of the language, a lot of the ideas, a lot of what you were saying was all very new to us. Some of your students have been doing this kind of work for years with different people, and they know different names and read different books. This was 100% new to us.
KIM: Right. What would you say were some of the milestones along the way for you and breakthroughs in your journey sexually? You really threw yourself into these ideas and concepts and language that may have been very new. I love that.
What were some of the real sexual breakthroughs that you’ve had along the way?
JEFF: When I first started doing this stuff with you, I was so intent on learning the technique and how to make it happen for her. We spent three hours at a time just to get a G-spot orgasm, a squirting orgasm, something like that.
We eventually got there, and I said, “I don’t even know what I did; it just happened.” I didn’t understand at the time that’s not really what matters. There’s a basic technique, of course, and I think every woman is probably different, so you’ve got to learn the little ins and outs of each one. Well, I only have to worry about one. [Laughs]
That’s not important. It’s the connection, and when you’re connected, this stuff kind of just shows up. You don’t really know what you’re going to get; it’s a grab bag. They all seem to be unique.
KIM: All the different orgasms, you mean?
JEFF: Yeah. Even though they’re G-spot or A-spot or cervical-related, they’re never the same. You get something different. This one was more intense, or this one felt weird in my arm. I’m talking about her body, but I’m feeling it too.
The breakthrough is that I’m understanding that. It’s not really the battle, it’s the war. I don’t know if that’s a good analogy, but it’s the long-term thing. It’s the work.
KIM: I talk a lot about how with the deeper vaginal orgasms, the internal orgasms for women, G-spot, cervical, ejaculatory, squirting, the main ingredient, the key to getting there, is surrender and letting go. That’s why the couple needs to be really connected. The woman really needs to be able to let go of control, open, and be receptive. That, I think, is the correlation between how different they are in each experience—the degree of surrender and opening that happens, the quality of the connection that’s there with the couple and with the woman within herself. We can do all these things to set the stage for that, which I think is what you mean by the long-term investment of staying connected and doing this emotional clearing work and keeping the lines of communication open. All of those things contribute to what happens in the bedroom.
JEN: So on my side of that discovery in our sexual relationship, very early on in the Coming Together Salon I got hit by a brick wall of understanding the work I had in front of me. I thought we were just going to have better sex. He thought that too. The reason we were doing this was because we were going to have better sex, and who wouldn’t want that?
You would say other things and we heard them, but we didn’t really know what that meant. All I knew was I was not feeling my feelings in any kind of real time. There was a big delay, and I was initially numb and in shock. It didn’t matter if it was a good thing or a bad thing. I could go through a war and come out the other side and seem fine because I just didn’t process any of it. I didn’t allow myself to feel it. I was totally shut down.
That was a huge one. And about surrender, I said, “Oh my God, what does that mean?” Then you would talk about polarity, and I’d say, “Fuck, here we go.” Because we’re both alphas in our own universes, and so a big part of our relationship is butting heads over who’s in control. [Laughs]
Historically, I was fighting for power, and I didn’t necessarily feel like I could relinquish that control. I think control is a made-up thing, but it’s this perceived safety.
I started understanding that I saw myself in terms of “Do I feel safe, do I feel unsafe? Am I in protection or in openness?” I started approaching everything related to him in that way and finally realized, “Wow, we’ve been together all this time; he is safe. I don’t have to have my armor on. I have no idea how to take it off.” And everything I experienced as a Gen-X woman, as someone still dealing with discrimination and harassment, all the things women deal with, I had built up this armor. And he was paying the price for that, but he shouldn’t have been.
At the same time, we’re talking about a 30-year relationship, so he wasn’t in his most divine masculine self. He’d spent the last 18 years figuring out how to be a man because he was raising a boy. He did a lot of work on himself that I didn’t even realize was happening, or I wasn’t seeing it as that work.
Then, when we started doing the work with you, I said, “Oh my God, he has completely healed himself in this way. He’s a man, and I can do this. I can surrender, and I don’t have to do everything.”
KIM: A man worthy of submission.
JEN: Absolutely.
JEFF: That was the point where I probably should have said, “Have you taken a look at me? You should get on this.” [Laughs]
JEN: And I was! I was totally on it. All of that helped me open. Also, I knew that I needed some help dealing with past trauma to feel my feelings. I knew what my issues were, but I didn’t know what to do about it. I had done talk therapy, put all my crap in nice boxes and put it away. It was time for me to take it out, look at it, and finally let it go.
Really, it’s been a year-long journey of healing and self-discovery for me too. One of the other things that I think was huge for us was when we went through the blocks in one of the Coming Together homework assignments. We realized that we had a lot of the same blocks about women and sexuality, him putting me on a pedestal, and how I was un-fuckable because—
KIM: Madonna/whore stuff?
JEN: I said, “Yeah, I can be your wife and the mother of your children, but you can still fuck the shit out of me.” Once he realized it wasn’t an either/or, it could be everything, then the walls came down and it was “Game on. Now we’re open to this journey.”
KIM: I love that. It’s funny, because the propaganda, the messaging, is so prevalent throughout our culture. Even if you’re raised as a good feminist who is a career woman and out there and doing things, we all get this imprinting of the Madonna/whore dichotomy where a woman can be a virgin or a slut, but she can’t be somewhere in between.
Even if we intellectually know better than that, we’ve still been bombarded with this for our entire lives by every element of the media, advertising, you name it, unless we actually look at it directly and realize, “Okay, maybe some of this has seeped in someplace.” Then we can reject it and consciously reshape and be clear about who we are and what we want.
But until then, most people are running on very unconscious programs.
JEN: Part of the issue was he was a boy hearing all this stuff that we were hearing as girls. He was trying to respect me. He was not allowing me to be sexual, or he was not sexualizing me out of respect. But that meant we were not having a great sexual relationship because he wasn’t giving himself permission because he thought he was doing the right thing. He was doing a good job by not allowing me to ever know that he had these desires or that he wanted to do this stuff.
It was the status thing for me. I was turning 50, and I’d never actually really explored my sexuality to the extent I would have liked to or known my own body because we were stuck in that belief system, and we’d been together for 30 years. The time that we would’ve spent with other people, having successes or failures and moving on to the next relationship, we’d been together.
We were kind of stunted sexually because we were with each other for 30 years but not exploring together. We were kind of in this shut-down version of what we thought sex was supposed to be.
To hear him say, “I really want you to explore your body. I’m not feeling insecure about it. It’s not threatening to me”—it completely reversed all the things that had previously been a problem. It was really freeing for me. Not because he controlled me, but because he’s my partner and I want to be able to be completely open and share everything with him.
The radical honesty part is a big one, so we take that to heart. I can’t believe the things that we talk about now because there’s no hesitation. We just talk freely about anything and everything. It’s incredible.
KIM: I love that. You said that recently one of the things you’re into is this idea of slow sex where everything just slows right down, almost to the point where there seems like there is no movement. Describe that. Why has that been important? Because the quick and fast and rushed energy can be wonderful. I love that too, but I think for people sometimes maybe that can mean they’re not present and they can get lost in that. Tell us how that was revelatory for you, slowing things down.
JEFF: I never would’ve imagined trying to slow down. Men want the jackhammer thing—that’s typical. But slowing down also helps me. There’s a benefit for the men to do this too, but we just don’t understand that.
Most of the self-pleasuring that goes on, I think with women and men, it’s, “Oh shit, I got 30 seconds without somebody—I got to bang this out now before someone opens the door.” There’s this mad rush to get done with whatever you’re doing, and the only way to do that is quickly. So you get used to that mechanical thing.
We still do that here and there, but I understand now about slowing down. I almost want to say I think it’s true for women. I belong to some chat groups that are connections through you, Kim. Men who have taken classes with you. I’m part of the community of guys that get together pretty regularly and have Zoom calls and share tips and successes in things.
Sometimes it just takes another man explaining to you about technique and sharing tips and stuff. I helped another couple achieve a G-spot orgasm by telling him to slow down. I think he was doing it manually and I said, “Dude, slow down. You think this can’t fucking possibly be the way to do this, but do it so you can’t even see your hand moving. That slow.” And it fucking worked, and she had her first G-spot orgasm.
We don’t have to go that slow for Jen, but when I do slow down, weird things happen. Things go in different directions, and energies happen and move throughout her body. Even if it’s penis and vagina sex, it’s super slow. I don’t think people would want to watch this porn movie if it was being filmed [laughs] because it’s like two turtles or something. I can give her G-spot orgasms orally. The trick to that is to put your tongue in a spot, and it’s almost like flicking the bristles on a toothbrush one at a time. That’s the speed you’re moving at, and that works for her.
I can’t believe she can feel that super-slow movement, but she’s obviously feeling it because she’s making noise.
JEN: I think some of this fast assumption is coming from porn. Because I think guys watch porn for pleasure and technique. They see hard and fast and a woman making all these noises, then she squirts and they say, “That’s how you do it.”
In the beginning, he was trying to go hard and fast with the G-spot. With everything, it was hard and fast for hours, and with vibrators. It was so much overstimulation. I didn’t know whether I was coming or going. I mean, there was a lot of pleasure there, but it was like a race car revving at 7,000 RPMs. I thought, “Eventually this has to go somewhere. Either I have to explode or something has to happen because I can’t maintain this level of frequency. It’s insane.”
What we didn’t realize until somehow we magically slowed down is that if he goes too fast, it runs right over the pleasure. It’s too fast for my body to feel it. When he slows down, I actually feel all of it and I’m present.
For anyone who has had shitty fast-food sex with somebody and they’re just out for themselves—women think that their cervix is a source of pain because some guy rammed it or he was just going hard and fast. You’re bracing yourself and trying to angle your body to not have it hit because you’re thinking, “This isn’t going to be good.”
So when you do slow down and you’re being conscious in what you’re doing and you’re connected with your partner, then you can open. You can flow. Then you can feel things. Then you can have orgasms you didn’t know you could have because you thought they were supposed to look like something else.
I’m not saying that I’ll never have hard and fast orgasms, but every time he slows down, I have way more feeling. Whether it’s with his cock or his tongue or his fingers or anything else, that’s when the crazy good stuff happens. Just slow down. [Laughs]
JEFF: We were just in Tulum, and we were on this hanging Balinese bed. We were having sex and got into this rhythm where she was having a G-spot orgasm with every single thrust. It was like a metronome. So I know we’ve got it. If that’s happening, we’re in the cycle. That’s just by slowing down. The opposite of what you would think.
I don’t know that to go fast is the natural way men do it, but it’s a learned behavior. It’s just the way that we’ve done it in the past, and we don’t know anything different. It was a reprogramming for me.
We kind of stumbled upon the slowing-down thing, and eventually she said, “I think I’m having G-spot orgasms.” I said, “Are you fucking kidding me?” [Laughs] But she must have been having them and we didn’t know.
JEN: Well, we were running over the pleasure by going too fast. I wasn’t feeling anything because it was just too fast. Then we slowed down, and I said, “I think we’ve stumbled upon something,” and we had.
KIM: You’ve talked about how semen retention has now become a big part of the equation. I really believe in the whole notion of expanded sex. That’s why I talk about the importance of three-hour sex dates as a minimum and then beginning to contemplate and plan sex weekends and even sex weeks, so that we can have time to sink into things. To open up and to relax and really feel into our bodies.
Because most people have varying degrees of physical and emotional numbness, and it’s in that uninterrupted time and space to let things really unfurl that we start to tap into what’s beneath the surface.
Some of my most profound experiences have been during very, very slow, incremental movement, where our genitals begin to talk to each other. There’s us, and then there’s our genitals. In that slow space, our genitals have this connection. It’s like they wake up and they talk to each other, and we become aware of those conversations as the holders of those genitals.
But there’s this whole other communication going on at the same time that I find way easier to tune into in those slower moments. It doesn’t mean you’re always going super slow and a variation of tempo. I know you’ve said that as well. But I think people are working through unconscious blocks around all things sexual, and going slow is a profound way to crack that open and to find out what’s underneath that we may have been suppressing. Good and bad.
Let’s hear about your adventures in semen retention.
JEFF: I don’t know that I would say I’ve been struggling with it. I’ve maybe been putting it off over the past year. I’m aware of it. When I say I’ve had an epiphany about it, I guess it’s more just an understanding that there’s no way around this. I’ve had some—I don’t know if I would call them energy orgasms, but energy feelings, from things that we’re doing through sex.
Astute men will tell you, “Dude, once you’ve figured this out, you’re not going to want to ejaculate anymore. It’s so much better.” The nonejaculatory orgasm is the goal.
I understand that, and I’m interested in going to that level. The only way to do that is to start practicing semen retention. To get her to the deeper places, where the hard and fast stuff picks up, you have to master that.
More importantly, we have so much sex. We have four scheduled sex dates per week, and they’re all hours long. There’s a lot of sex happening regularly. I’ll be honest—when those days are back to back, by that second day, some of the drive is not there. I’m always going to show up, and ten minutes in, I’m into it. I wouldn’t say I’m dragging ass, but I’m not looking forward to it as much. It’s not prom night. You know what I mean?
KIM: Is that because you were ejaculating previously?
JEFF: Yes.
KIM: The day before.
JEFF: Yes.
KIM: How many ejaculations might you have if you have an hours-long sex date?
JEFF: Only one. Each sex date, it’s only once. Yeah, and it’s always the big finale at the end. We’ll do the whole thing and then I’m done at the end.
KIM: Got it. You have pretty good control.
JEN: He has really good control.
JEFF: I can fuck for hours, and she can decide, “Okay, my hips are killing me.” I’ll say, “All right, give me ten seconds.” You know what I mean? I can decide when it’s going to happen. So it’s not a stamina thing. It’s more like what I’m interested in is not ejaculating anymore.
I’m getting a little better at this, and maybe we’ll go one or two and I’ll skip it once. My favorite part of the whole thing is that the horniness never goes away. It’s like I didn’t have sex because I didn’t come. I like the way that feels. In my mind, I’m in pursuit of her more, and I think she can sense that.
At the end of each session, we usually talk. How was that? We talk about things. We can both feel it when there’s a deeper connection. It’s just different. I can feel it in her mouth, in the way her eyes look.
I think you said that the vagina is connected to the mouth, and it is. Once she’s in this thing, her mouth is different. The way she kisses is crazy. It’s very intense. The way her eyes look—something happens. I’ll say, “What was it? Why was it so connected tonight?” I think it’s because she can sense my pursuit.
I’m starting to figure that out. I’m getting better at this, I guess.
JEN: I think in the beginning, it was a new idea that he’d never heard before your course. For some students who have been practicing it for a while, you might say, “Okay, you only get to come once this week.” Challenge accepted. He said, “What the fuck? Why would anybody not want to come? What is the point of having sex if you don’t get to come? That’s the whole point of this.”
I think it felt like someone was trying to take something away from him, someone was trying to control something that he didn’t want anyone else to control. And I can fully understand that.
So whereas some other couples, the female partner might be giving the male partner a hard time about semen retention and saying, “You said you were going to not come today, and now we’re going to fight about it,” I said, “This is your journey. Other men are telling you the benefits of this, and you’re starting to understand that this is the path for you. But whether you decide to come or not, that’s not for me to judge. I’m here to support you on your journey, and I know you’re going to figure it out. It’s not a question of if, it’s when. You’ll do it when you’re ready to do it, and I’m not here to rush you.”
JEFF: I think there’s that age-old complaint with couples. “Well, he just cares about himself. He came and he’s done and now he’s snoring in five seconds.” That is not what’s going on here. She’s having 100 orgasms in one session. This is more about me getting myself to the next level. It’s not hurting her at all when I come.
JEN: But it’s also about him allowing me to give him my love when he receives what I have to offer him. He’s been on this journey for my pleasure for most of a year. I think the big breakthrough that he’s had recently is this understanding about semen retention and realizing that, for him to experience all the bliss and the ecstasy and take things to the next level, the kinds of things that I’m experiencing, he’s going to have to let go. He’s going to have to receive. He’s going to have to open up and succumb to the journey.
I’m just here to support that. We decided that one night is going to be dedicated to him each week so that we can start practicing that. I’m excited about it because it means I get to do lingam massages and end with an epic blow job.
JEFF: That’s her superpower.
[Laughter]
JEN: But if he’s retaining, then I have to stop and let him have a second, edge him, and not take him over the top. We’re learning how to communicate that, so I know what he actually wants.
KIM: Right. To be clear for people listening, when we first have these conversations about stamina and orgasm without ejaculation, we mean semen retention. But I think people might think of semen retention as not coming. NoFap. It’s almost like punishment.
But people have amazing stories about how productive and brilliant they got and how they found they could funnel all this energy into their lives, their business, their health, their fitness, their workouts, and everything. They get to see the difference of what it looks like when you’re depleting yourself with constant ejaculation.
But what I promote in the best of all possible worlds is learning how to orgasm without ejaculation, so you actually get all the pleasure, benefits, and experience of orgasm, but you’re just not releasing that fluid, which is considered to be very precious. It’s extremely depleting for men if they are letting it go constantly, as most men tend to do.
I think part of that journey might be times when a man doesn’t have either the orgasm or the ejaculation because we’re cultivating and practicing and learning how to master that.
But yeah, you’re not the first man to feel defensive or feel like you’re going to get something taken away from you. But it’s great to be able to hear feedback from men further along the journey who will attest to what a superpower that is to be able to have intense stamina, absolute control, and bring your woman to these deeper places. But also, that is the key: these deeper, life-changing orgasms that I’m always talking about for women, the internal vaginal orgasms, the parallels to that for men are extended sex sessions and being able to transmute that energy sexually. They get to these higher, cataclysmic, more transcendent, spiritual, cracked-open-type places that just will not happen in a five-minute bust-it-out orgasm. Or the kind of orgasm that makes a man pass out.
I always say the big barometric question is: When you have sex, does it leave you feeling like you want to run a marathon? Like you’re energized, rejuvenated, transformed, in ecstasy, and like it changed your life? If not, then you’re doing it wrong.
That all comes down to being able to harness our sexual energy rather than just ejecting it unconsciously out of us.
JEN: When we first signed up for the Coming Together Salon, we thought we were going to be in a course that was a certain number of weeks and then the course would be over. But that was just the beginning of the journey for us. We continued on with your other courses and absorbed as much as we were able to handle at that time, being new students to this type of work.
Now we’ve been on this journey for around a year, and we’re not the same people we were a year ago. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Sexually, in the world, with each other, in our communication, in the sex that we’re having … Everything about us is completely transformed, and we still realize that we have a ton of work to do. There is always another level to go.
Having done the Couples Salon, he did the Men’s Salon, I did the Women’s, and I’m in VKF right now. We’re going to go right back into the Couples Salon. There are always things that you missed the first time, things to pick up, and the journey doesn’t end at 8 or 10 weeks; you’re just getting started. When people are frustrated because they’re not having instant results, I say, “Did you ever sign up for a marathon and think you were going to just show up and run it?” Or would you say, “I’m going to lose 40 pounds in 10 weeks?” No, you’re not. That’s not a realistic expectation.
But everybody wants instant gratification, and they want a quick payoff. That is not how this goes. This is an introspection journey where, if you are doing it right, it’s always going to be part of who you are. This is just part of who we are now.
JEFF: It’s a lifestyle. It’s not learning sex tricks. This is who you are now. You change. It changes you. I don’t know.
JEN: It was a huge win that he was able to give me the orgasms he set out to achieve. He was the one looking at techniques. He was the one trying to figure it out. He spent a tremendous amount of time, energy, love, and devotion on my pleasure. So when he was able to finally check those boxes and say, “Yes! I fucking did this! I own this shit,” that was amazing, and I couldn’t have been happier.
But at the same time, we have so much sex, and this is such a normal part of our life now that that’s the new normal. It isn’t, “Oh my God, we’re having crazy sex. It’s, “Yeah, we have crazy sex all the time, and it’s whenever we want it to be.” We’re in the promised land. That’s what I like to say.
JEFF: I don’t let her think that this is just about me figuring out orgasms, because she’s pretty adept at things too. There’s prostate play and things like that going on. She’s a fucking savage. I’m having amazing things happen too. Maybe not the energy thing the way I’d like it to be, but I think I’m in the small percentile of men who are having good sex with a woman. Yeah, you’ve got to involve prostate in your bag of tricks.
JEN: And the funny thing is, when we first started this work, once we finally got rid of the block about the Madonna/whore thing, he was trying to figure out, “What are you actually into?” I would try to tell him things, and I honestly didn’t even really know much. But we would take these little online quizzes to see what’s a yes, what’s a hard no, what you might be interested in if your partner is interested in it.
If you’d asked me if I would do certain things when we first started, I would’ve said, “Yeah, I’m not really into that,” or “Maybe if you wanted to.” Once we get going, I’m all over it. [Laughs] It’s no-holds-barred. If he’s enjoying it, I’m into it. As long as it’s just the two of us, we’re in a closed relationship, there’s nothing off the table.
We’re not into pain. He’s not going to hurt me, and I’m not going to hurt him. But other than that, I’m open to trying anything. Let’s do this. I think that’s exciting for him.
JEFF: Yeah. I didn’t realize that if your wife takes a pole-dancing class, she actually becomes an ass eater from doing that. [Laughs] A lot of weird shit is going on, but it’s not weird anymore.
JEN: He just can’t believe this is his life. That’s really what it is. Because for the longest time, he didn’t believe that a woman would really be interested in him or want to do those things. I think he’s finally coming around to the idea that I really am a sexual being, and I really do want to do these things, and I want to do them with him. I really am attracted to him. I think it’s starting to sink in.
KIM: I know part of your journey, Jeff, has been learning to really receive, and you guys had that steak and blow job day fiasco. Do you want to share about that?
JEN: Sure, I’d love to. With this history of Jeff being a big giver and trying to do all the things for me, he’s not used to counting on other people for anything. He’s been a lone wolf for most of his life. Anytime we would try to do something together, like working on a house project or something, he’d say, “Let me just do it. I work better alone.”
Knowing that he’s not used to having his needs met, especially by women in his family, I didn’t want to be put in that box. I wanted him to know that I love him, and I want to pleasure him, and I want to be his dream girl and do all the things to make him feel loved.
So, on to steak and blow job day. I had never heard of it before, but as soon as I did, I thought, Oh, this is the male equivalent of Valentine’s Day. Because normally women are the focus of that day. Steak and blow job day sounded amazing. I was going to prove that he was important. There was all this stuff I was going to do for him, and it was going to be great. I was going to change the narrative that he had to take care of himself because no else took care of him.
I put it on the calendar, and then I had a few days where I was having a lot of pain and trying to figure out what was going on in my body, and I was very, very distracted. That meant I was screwing things up at work, and then I was trying to fix things at work, and I was just all over the place.
I came home and started talking about my neck pain. Then I said, “So, how was your day?” And he said, “You forgot what today is.” And then I said, “Holy shit, it’s steak and blow job day.” I could see that he was let down, but he was trying to not have feelings about it. “Yeah, this is just like any other day where I have to take care of myself and no one cares about my needs.”
JEFF: I pretty much get blow jobs every day anyway, so I wasn’t that upset at her.
JEN: He was deflecting, and I said, “This sucks because I totally blew it. I fucked this whole thing up and I feel terrible.” I was trying to express to him, “No, this is really important to me. I really want to do this for you.” And he said, “Don’t worry about it; it’s not that big of a deal. Whatever.”
We ended up talking through our feelings about the whole thing and I said, “Can I please just get the steak and we’ll continue with the night?” He ended up surprising me. He didn’t get angry. He said, “Okay, if you really want to do it, go ahead.”
In the past, before we were in Anami-land, that would’ve led to a big fight because his feelings would’ve been hurt, so he would’ve lashed out. He would’ve said a lot of things that were hurtful because he was angry. I would have gotten defensive and retreated. Then it would’ve been a cold war. There would’ve been tension in the house. Then eventually we’d just let it blow over and nothing would ever really get fixed. That was the pattern in the past.
Because we’ve been doing this work and our communication is so different and our defenses are down, and we’re being open with each other, I was able to express how sorry I was, and he was able to accept that apology and realize, “She didn’t do this to hurt me. She doesn’t want to drop me. She doesn’t want to leave me hanging.” He said, “Okay, I’m going to let you do this.”
It ended up being a great night. I think the biggest surprise wasn’t the blow job; it was that I cooked the steak right. He’s normally the cook in the house. I was out there with a headlamp at the barbecue and a thermometer. I thought it was going to take five minutes, but it took 20.
I think at the end, he appreciated the fact that I made the effort. I could’ve been an asshole and said, “You said I could forget it? Okay. Then I guess I’ll forget it.”
“No, this is fucking important. I show up for you, and I’m really sorry that I fucked this up. I feel really bad, and I appreciate that you let me make it up to you.”
The fact that he did that opened me up even more to him because it’s such a drastic change from our old patterns and the defensiveness that he would’ve once had. In my family, I’m used to having to be perfect and not being allowed to make mistakes. That’s why I would get defensive and make excuses and just be stuck in my own pattern. The fact that he let me not be perfect and it was okay, and we had a great night and we were fully connected—by the time it was over, I realized, “Oh my God, this is everything Kim promised.” We just thought we were going to take a class and have better sex.
This transformation that you talk about that happens in relationships—it absolutely happened for us. I mean, that’s just one example. I think it’s funny that it happened on steak and blow job day. But anytime there’s a disagreement or a lack of understanding, or we take something the wrong way, we give each other the benefit of the doubt, and we talk through it. And then it doesn’t last nearly as long. It’s over in an hour. It’s not three days.
I’m so connected to him; I don’t like when things are wrong. I say, “I need to talk about this. You don’t get to shut down; you have to deal with this because I don’t like this feeling, and I don’t want to feel disconnected from you. I don’t want to feel separated from you.”
Even when we had a lot of stress, if there was some external thing that was stressing us out, I’d say, “Kim would tell us we should be having more sex right now to fix the external shit that’s going on. We have to come together. We can’t separate. We need to get even closer because we are our safe place for each other.”
JEFF: Before if there was an argument, I was the one who would come to her and say I was sorry or extend the olive branch. And now she does it. We both do it. We just don’t want to be in that situation. The fights are shorter. They’re not even fights. They’re just minor, like an outburst or something when I’m stressed out from work or something and I snap at her. Then she tells me what I did and I stop.
We’re more consistently happy.
JEN: I think part of that is because I’ve realized that anger is the first response. Anger is what people resort to because they don’t want to feel the other feelings. If somebody hurts you, you react in anger because you don’t want to be sad, disappointed, devastated, all those things. We would get stuck at the anger. His first response would be anger, and then I would respond in kind. That’s not our reaction anymore.
When we first started doing the work, sometimes his first reaction would be anger and I would say, “Okay, what’s really going on? What’s behind this?” It might take three hours for us to figure it out. He’d say, “I don’t even know what I’m angry about.” We would just keep talking and talking until we would finally figure it out. I might be exhausted, thinking, “Oh my God, this is so much work,” but eventually it doesn’t take that long. It’s much quicker to move past that because now you don’t have that defense mechanism anymore, and you can just get to the meat of whatever the issue is and talk it out and move on.
We’re not holding onto shit anymore either. It’s easier to just let it go and move on.
KIM: I love that.
JEN: Sounds crazy, right? [Laughs]
KIM: No. It sounds amazing. It’s the whole clean-as-you-go policy. It becomes a habit. Like you said, this whole thing is a lifestyle. The elevation of sex, prioritizing your connection and open communication with each other so that those things are constantly in flow. You’re always hovering at a sexual and emotional simmer where you exist at a high level of connection all the time and you can live there. That’s 30 years into your relationship. People buy into stories and narratives that it’s not possible. “Humans aren’t wired to do this,” or whatever BS they try to tell themselves to rationalize avoiding intimacy and vulnerability.
Tell us about the anatomy of a five-day sex date. You recently went to Tulum and were in this beautiful eco-chic lux villa. Barefoot luxury, my favorite experience and way of life. Tell us what five days of sex looks like.
JEN: Well, first, I just have to say thank you for the recommendation because that was literally my dream. You told us in VKF to make a vision board of what you want your life to look like. Honestly, I’m living my vision board. We looked at the room and saw the property and I was almost crying. I said, “This is the most beautiful place.” I just felt so like myself, because that’s 100% everything that I’m into. It was just the perfect backdrop to really relax and spend time together.
JEFF: Yeah. We have quarterly sex weekends planned out. Then we have to dial it in as we get closer and figure out when we go. We’ve done quite a few.
We have a lot of sex already, but we know we’re going there for that. It’s kind of like a retreat, I guess. There are no distractions and no itinerary, other than just have sex. It’s just a little bit of a looser schedule. Usually I don’t pull any punches with that. I’m willing to spend money on those trips on lavish rooms and exclusive places and crazy shit.
But they’re generally 72 hours and people say, “What is this guy talking about? Seventy-two hours of sex is not enough?” There’s still travel involved, and there’s dragging suitcases around, and it feels a little rushed.
JEN: Well, there was this one sex weekend that was in a penthouse with multiple rooms. I had never had sex in every room somewhere. It was a fantasy I had when we bought our house, but we weren’t in the place to do that sexually. He would’ve said, “Oh, this has to happen at eleven at night in our bed.” I wanted to say, “Have me on the kitchen table. Have me on the coffee table.” We were just in two different places in our heads, and so that never happened.
But I saw this penthouse and said, “Are you fucking kidding me right now? Oh, we’re doing this everywhere.” That was part of the sex weekend.
JEFF: I don’t think that was a sex weekend; that was a regular date night. [Laughs]
JEN: No, we were there for two days. That was a sex weekend.
JEFF: No. You’re talking about the penthouse on the Upper West Side. All right, whatever, it just goes to show you, it’s insane everywhere we go.
JEN: Depending on where we are, something might come up like that. Or if there’s a well-placed mirror and a table, I may get flogged on it. That might happen. Or there could be a balcony and a beautiful beach.
JEFF: With people looking at us. [Laughs]
JEN: They can’t see me, and he looks like he’s sitting in a chair, but it might be an afternoon blow job. Whatever opportunity arises based on where we are. They’re fun new places, so you want to do fun new things.
JEFF: But the point is, those trips, as fun as they are, are still 72 hours long and still feel a little bit like, “We’ve got to hurry up and do this because we have to go eat dinner at this time,” and it’s a little rushed.
To go to Tulum and be there for five days was kind of an experiment, and it slowed everything down. We slowed the whole weekend down and things got better.
JEN: If we’re going to have ultramarathon sex, I have to pace myself because I don’t want to be reeling by day five because I’m so physically used up. We’re not in a rush though, so let’s just take our time and do whatever we feel like in that moment.
JEFF: Because it’s 90 degrees in Mexico, you can basically just be naked. And it’s an adults-only resort, so they’re kind of expecting to be naked and nobody gives a shit. Everybody is assuming all that’s going on, so it’s just a different mindset.
JEN: We had such a beautiful room that was on the ocean with this tub and this Balinese bed and this lounge area. I did some of my VKF work. I did my jade egg practice. I listened to a meditation. Then he woke up and we did something with each other.
But having the tub there and being able to use that in the moonlight or in the middle of the day—it’s too windy out? Okay, now we’ll take a bath together in the room, and then we’ll be on the bed. There were mirrors everywhere and candlelight. There was one not very good light source, so the lighting in there was super romantic to begin with.
JEN: The more you looked around the space, the more you were aware, “Oh my God, this entire place is designed for sex.” Because the room itself was circular, and if you weren’t in the round bed with the sexy mosquito netting, the entire room was mirrored. In addition to those mirrors, there was also this giant tub for two with a swing and a rain shower.
JEFF: It was the Sea Villa in Azulik, and it’s worth every penny. If you’re looking to have serious sex, that’s a good place to do it.
JEN: So anyway, after breakfast we were in and around the tub, enjoying each other, and then we probably got too hot and ended up on the Balinese bed, which was amazing because it fit two people, and it swung, and had a bunch of pillows. You had the ocean crashing in the background and the breeze blowing.
We really enjoyed the Balinese bed.
JEN: I was having G-spot orgasms to the rhythm of the swinging Balinese bed in the breeze with the ocean. That was amazing.
JEFF: At night that she ran the bath. It was dark and right after a full moon, so almost full. It was red, and the whole Caribbean Sea was lit up by the moonlight. We were in the bath, and she was sitting on the steps. I was floating in the tub, and it was like this periscope-style blow job thing. That was weird. That was pretty good. That was unusual.
We really didn’t feel like we had to be doing anything. Wake up and have sex for a little bit and don’t come because you’re going to want to do this later. We would go to breakfast, come back, get naked again. We took a bath, we went outside to the pool. He gave me G-spot orgasms with his tongue while I was on the swing. It was whatever we felt like doing for five days. It was amazing.
JEFF: Yeah. It just stretched things out a little bit more and took some pressure off. And that’s the key to having good sex—not being pressured. The whole surrender thing and all of that. She’s the sensual type anyway, so that setting, that’s her thing. The candlelight, the ocean, the sounds, the smell, the way everything looks. It was just a perfect place to do that.
JEN: I wanted to be outside. A bathtub, a hot tub, a lake, a waterfall, the ocean, any kind of water is an immediate turn-on for me. So to have two pools of water meant I was turned on the whole time.
I love the sun, the moon, the breeze, the iguanas. Everything about it, I was already in and open.
Then, because of where we were staying and because he’d recently had a big birthday, we did a Mayan rebirth ceremony and had massages on the waterfront and took a bath together and made an offering to the ocean.
JEFF: We were completely naked with two strangers. This is just more testament to how different things are. I would never have done that in the past. My massage therapist was a girl, and I was standing naked in front of her.
JEN: I’ve always been a naked person, and he’s a newer naked person.
JEN: But the conversion’s happened. I love it. It was just a great way for us to connect because I had a rebirth in the fall, and we were back at that spa, and we took a dip in the ocean at night. I got rid of some self-limiting beliefs in the fire, and then we ran into the ocean together for my rebirth. So for us to be in Tulum and to have a similar experience for him just seemed really perfect and made us even more connected because I felt like I was supporting him and the way that he wanted to do it.
We did a primitive sound healing workshop that was really, really amazing, and I wept and went on a whole journey. We had some interesting experiences on the property that heightened our connection and our sexual connection. Anything we did really added to our experience and didn’t detract from it.
JEFF: Yeah. Normally when we do sex weekends, we try to just eat and have sex or at least devote the weekend to sex. The rules have lessened a little bit with that, I think. When you’re a guest at the resort, they have different activities and things going on that are included in your stay. The sound healing was amazing. I don’t know what it is, but that works on me. I feel really reset after that.
That’s a new way for us to connect, and it’s something that I’ve been very open to. All the other modalities since we’ve been doing your work. Because I’ve always been a little bit interested in things like that, but never really pursued them. But in trying to find ways to heal myself, I said, “Oh, let’s go to a sound healing.”
The fact that they were doing it with primitive instruments in this Mayan area of an ancient civilization—I believe there is magic in Mexico from the ancestral universal connection they had with the stars. Every time we go there it’s a totally different experience, and it’s incredible. I really love it.
The things that we did just added to the work that we’re doing and the path that we’re on. I thought it was really fitting.
JEFF: That stuff would not have had the same effect on me had we not been doing your work, Kim. It just fit right in.
JEN: We’re just open to the message, and I think that’s a big part of it. You’re going to hear things when you’re ready to hear them.
JEFF: It’s like the universe is giving you something, but you’ve got to be listening for it or you’re going to miss it.
JEN: I like to say the universe will let you know what you need to know when you need to know it.
KIM: When I talk about people having sex weekends or sex weeks, everything there feeds the sex. If you go to a yoga class, you’re helping to open your hips so that later on in the day they can stay more comfortably open. Everything is nourishing you and supporting the sex. Having that space where you’re opening your heart, your genitals. A big part of the Anami work is doing this ongoing clearing of blockages. Even this Madonna/whore thing is a big example. Finding things that are impeding our natural and organic and orgasmic sexual flow is part of the ongoing work. New blocks, new little arguments that we might have, or longstanding blocks, traumas, belief systems—all of that is part of the process.
I love that within this five-day experience there were these things that helped to crack you open and release. And then you could go have sex, and that cracked you open and made you more receptive to some kind of healing experience. Then the healing experiences cracked your heart open even more and you took that back into the bedroom. Everything feeds each other. It’s this beautiful sexual rejuvenation garden you’ve cultivated.
JEN: Yeah, it was amazing. The other thing, too, is the fact that we’ve been together for 30 years. So many times it’s come up between us—“What if we’d done Kim’s work 20 years ago?” And I’ll say, “Twenty years ago, if you were ready for it, I wasn’t. Because I was so stuck in feminist mode. ‘I have to be taken seriously. I need to have a career. I can’t possibly be a stay-at-home mom; that’s not an option, because we come from divorced parents.’”
I was so trapped in all of that, being young and trying to figure out my own life, that I couldn’t have accepted the information then. Now, with the life experience I’ve had and the journey that we’ve been on, this rebirth that we’ve had, okay. We did things the way they told us to do it. We’re no longer accepting the bullshit that the world is trying to tell us we have to live by. Now we’re actually going to have the relationship that we want, the way we want to have it. I have no fucks left to give for what anyone thinks of me or for anyone who has anything to say about my body or my nipples or what I’m doing with my time or any other fucking thing.
I feel like we’re in the same place at the same time, and now is when we can connect. If I had come to the work before, he would’ve said, “What the fuck are you talking about?” He wouldn’t have been on board. The timing is perfect. We’re both ready and open, and we’re going to reap the benefits of all of it because now, this is the path. This is just who we are.
JEFF: And there definitely is some pushback. The slut-shaming thing becomes more obvious now.
KIM: Pushback in what way? You mentioned nipples. I can only assume that you mean walking around braless, and your nipples are being seen. Nipples just scare the shit out of people. Even though people are obsessed with titties, you get some free-range nipples in the wild and people lose their fucking shit.
Tell me. What does that mean? Is that the thing? And what else is the slut-shaming? What is that all about?
JEN: Well, I don’t wear a bra anymore. A lot of times I’ll wear maybe a tank top that has a shelf bra or a camisole. The only time I wear a bra is a sports bra when I’m at the gym running on a treadmill, and I don’t wear a shirt. I definitely have nipples there. No one has shamed me there, but I wouldn’t care, even if they tried. I’d say, “Good luck. Why don’t you just take your shirt off and run with me?”
We’ve been going on these really elaborate date nights, and I’m really exploring my sexuality and allowing myself to be a grown-ass woman and present myself however I want. We went to Las Vegas in November, and I wore this black metallic see-through half-shirt with some very tight faux-leather pants and high heels.
I mean, if you were really looking, you could see my nipples.
JEFF: I was looking. [Laughs] It wasn’t clear plastic, but it was a see-through shirt.
JEN: And it was Las Vegas.
JEFF: And it was daytime.
JEN: If you can’t wear that in Vegas, then where the fuck can you ever wear it? I was just owning that shit.
JEFF: And I’ve got to say, in the past, I would’ve been mortified if she did that. This is BC and AD. There’s pre-Kim and post-Kim.
I would never have been okay with her doing that because it draws attention. “Someone’s going to think my wife’s a slut” or “Some other man is going to take her away from me because I can’t keep her.”
And I’ve got to say, it feels awesome to walk around with a woman who looks like that. I have a completely different view on the whole thing, and apparently other women do too because somebody in the elevator said to her, “I love your outfit.” Other women are empowered by it. I can feel that. She was talking to Jen, not to me, but I know what she meant. She said, “Good for you.”
It’s really busy on Las Vegas Boulevard, and we were on our way to Wakuda across the street. We were in the hub of all the activity. Some hip-hop guy said, “Oh shit! Look at that! Man, that motherfucker is all set!” I was going to high-five the guy.
There’s nothing threatening about that. I have her wrapped around my finger. She can be overtly sexual, and there’s no threat from anyone else. I want her to feel that. It’s better for both of us if she exhibits that. I think it’s awesome. I don’t think we should go to PTA meetings like that, but when the setting calls for it, she’s the hottest woman in the room. We do a lot of super-sexy date-night Burlesque shows and things like that, and she turns heads. People say, “Where’d you get that blouse?” and “What are those shoes?”
JEN: We’re just having fun with it. We’re having super-fun dates with each other, and we’re getting dressed up for each other, and if other people notice, great. If they don’t, great, because I’m not doing it for them. But it feels good to be able to feel like a sexual creature and to turn his head. And I’m thrilled that he’s owning it.
Because if he had said, “I have her wrapped around my finger,” 20 years ago, I would’ve said, “What the fuck did you just say? Excuse me?” All of that’s gone. There is none of that. “Good! I want you to feel like you have me wrapped around your finger because yes, we’re doing this together, and you totally have me. All of me. This is for you.”
JEFF: The slut-shaming thing—there was recently a post on a social media thing. It wasn’t even about Jen, but it ended up with these women attacking me about something and accusing me of being a misogynist. “Yeah, you should see the way he talks about his wife. I saw a post that says he chases that piece of tail around.” I said, “What, are you fucking kidding me, lady? You need a man in your life.”
All the things they’re accusing me of, like being disrespectful to her, she wants me to do. Hello?
JEN: What was the name of that movie? They Live? Where the guy had sunglasses? Do you remember it?
JEFF: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
KIM: I know we know it because of all the memes in the last few years about actually seeing reality and illusion.
JEN: Yeah. When you put the sunglasses on, you can see who’s a robot and you can see all the subliminal messaging in billboards, like “obey” and stuff like that. Then when you take them off, everybody looks normal.
The problem is, we’re these sexually awakened people who are having an amazing relationship the way a marriage is supposed to be. It’s what everybody actually wants but doesn’t know how to do. Well, we’re doing it. We finally figured it out after 30 years. But for the people that are still asleep, they’re still walking around without the glasses, and we have the glasses. We can see other people in their awake-ness, and we can see who’s asleep.
We’re not offended when people take offense to us because there’s a sexy Facebook profile picture. Then when someone wants to fight with him on the internet and they say, “Oh my God, can you believe he’s parading her around that?” I can say, “Okay, have a nice day.” We’re just not bothered by it.
KIM: Well, you also know that they have FUKME. You know that they are simply under-fucked, and this is them showing their under-fucked-ness.
JEFF: We’ve been propositioned by other couples. We’re not swingers. This is a closed relationship. We may wear all of this on our sleeves, but it’s just for us. It’s okay if people are into that kind of stuff, but we’re not.
Somebody sent me a message basically saying they wanted to fuck my wife. I was proud of it. “Really? Wow.”
JEN: I think the person wanted to fuck him too. [Laughs]
JEFF: Yeah, it was both of us. But in the past, I would’ve reacted to that in anger. “You can’t act like that. You shouldn’t be wearing that because look what happens. Other men are saying things.” Now, I feel like Fabio on the cover of a romance novel or something.
JEN: In the past he would’ve felt threatened by it and now it’s a compliment. Thank you, but no thank you.
JEFF: Yeah. You’re not going to be able to do to her what I can. It’s not a male against male thing; it’s a feather in my cap that someone is noticing our sexuality. But that’s not something I should be threatened by.
KIM: I think this is a really interesting theme because as people begin to emerge into their sexual selves or even think about emerging into their sexual selves and openly expressing who they are, there’s this idea of what people are going to think. Are we going to be judged? Okay, if everyone sees how hot and fuckable my wife is, is that going to be a threat? Is she going to leave me? Or vice versa.
When you’re that deeply immersed within each other and have this conscious monogamy, gourmet-sex, hot-as-fuck relationship, you’re so connected that it’s not even a concern. You can feel and deflect that energy, and you develop the imperviousness of the well-fucked person. I often talk about it with women because it’s more of a theme for them because their sexuality is much more judged, but it also exists for men. When you reach past a certain threshold in your well-fucked evolution, you get to that place of no fucks given. You become impervious. People’s judgments, their approval, lack of approval, whatever, don’t even matter. It just goes over your head, or it pings off you, and you’ve created this energetic force field of protection. You become this self-actualized person, wearing see-through clothing, nipples out on display, wearing tight pants so the shape of your cock is obvious for the world to enjoy, and the exuberance of your sensuality is safe within that.
You can do that even as an individual as you reach that place but as a couple, even more so. You’ve got each other’s backs, and you exist within this enmeshed cocoon of protection that is actually born out of being fully self-expressed.
JEFF: You almost don’t even notice it. I mean, you notice it, but it’s just like I don’t care. It doesn’t matter.
JEN: The difference for me, too, in terms of dressing up for date night is what I didn’t understand before. I got together with him when I was 20, so let’s say before that. I was 19, going out, and trying to wear something that was accentuating my breasts or something tight. Usually I was in a situation that was not safe. I was harassed by men, usually much older than me.
I thought I should be able to walk around the world and be dressed like that and not have bad things happen to me, but we live in the real world and bad things can happen to you.
For me to dress like that felt unsafe. For me to be sexual felt unsafe because the world was telling me that. My father was telling me that.
The difference now is I have the experience of a 50-year-old woman. It is safe for me to dress like that when I’m out on the town with my husband. Would I decide to wear that shirt on my own and traipse around Manhattan? Probably not. Because I’m not looking for that external attention from other men. I’m looking for that attention from my man.
I feel like the lack of experience as a woman screwed up my whole understanding of how I was presenting myself and the situations that I would get into. How different it is now, knowing what I know.
I’m trying to create a different narrative for my own daughter. She’s 16. While I’m not repressing her from expressing herself and what she looks like, I’m also trying to talk to her about being safe, so she isn’t doing it behind my back. I’m trying to help tell her and give her tools so she doesn’t have to worry, but she also doesn’t feel like she has to shut that down.
I think that’s also part of the female experience, distinguishing between the two and your personal safety.
KIM: Yeah. We’ve covered a lot of ground here today. Is there anything we haven’t touched on that you think would be important to add?
JEFF: The two of us are community leaders and involved in local politics and stuff like that. We’ve kind of stepped away from a lot of that to focus inward instead of outward. But you never really lose that leadership thing, and we want to help other couples with this. I wish people would ask us more questions. When they do, some of them get scared away and they’re not ready.
We want to help other marriages. Everybody is falling apart, and there’s nowhere left for heterosexual people to go and be themselves, and that’s a shame. You’re helping people, and we want to help you help people. I wish there was more of a way to do that.
JEN: I just want to say thanks, honestly. Because we started out thinking we were just going to have better sex, and honestly, our whole marriage has been transformed to the point that we renewed our vows in Vegas in November. If you’d asked me if that was going to happen two years ago, or even a year and a half ago, I’d have said, “No.”
The whole reason I wanted to do it was because we’ve been doing this work, and I wanted us to reaffirm our commitment to each other. The relationship contract that we made in Coming Together was pretty much my vows, saying I’m going to keep him at the center of my universe and that radical honesty is part of our relationship now. I’m going to hold him accountable. I’m going to be accountable. I’m giving myself to him, all of me, emotionally, physically, sexually, in every way.
It really feels like a new beginning for us, and I’m just glad that we made it this far so that we could finally have the relationship we’ve always wanted to have. I really have to thank you for setting us on this journey, and we’re going to be on it with you for a while because there’s always another level to go.
KIM: I love it. My pleasure. It’s been wonderful getting to know you both.
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Jeff and Jen kicked off their Anami Land journey with the Coming Together for Couples Salon last year, which is now open for registration.
This is my 10-week online signature program for creating conscious relationships and gourmet sex.
You’ll learn:
- How to have full-body and energy orgasms
- Building Supercock male stamina so he can last for hours
- How to achieve the deeper, life-changing vaginal orgasms for women: G-Spot and cervical
- Sexual reflexology of the genitals
- Tantra 101
- Full guided tutorials on yoni and lingam massage
- My prescriptions for healing using sexual positions
- Busting out of the buddy rut to create sizzling chemistry
- And much more!
Go to Coming Together to signup!
