The Holy Fuck: Part Two – Transcript
All my work is about this, the ultimate alchemical union. The place where we toss everything into the fire and are reborn—better, wilder, wiser, stronger, and wetter.
As Carl Jung says about alchemy, “The meeting of two personalities is the contact of two chemical substances. If there is any reaction, both are transformed.”
This is the poetry and mantra of my life and my work, and all of it comes together beautifully in the marriage of sex and spirituality. I believe that all the shame and taboo that have been imposed upon sexuality from the religious perspective are man-made. Meaning this is not the word of God or spirit or the universal life force. It is, in fact, blasphemy, somehow implying that people are inherently dirty and one of the highest acts of union that one could ever experience is, in fact, corrupted. That is the product of the minds of men, not God.
Many people come to me scarred by their religious upbringing. If it’s not the shame for feeling sexual desire, then they, both men and women, are struggling to rationalize the Madonna/whore dichotomy that is constantly shoved in everyone’s face or crotch. This is the idea that women can either be virgins or whores. There is no happy medium of healthy, voracious sexual appetite in a woman. She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t.
The constraints of religion are a big topic for many people. That’s why I am delighted in today’s episode to feature a couple, one half of whom is an Episcopal priest who loves and worships at the altar of his wife’s pussy, which transforms their relationship from a place of sexual dissociation into wild, holy, deep, born-again sexual liberation.
Here are Andy and Olga.
[Baseball cheer: Well-F**ked All-Star.]
KIM: Welcome, Andy and Olga! It is lovely to have you here.
ANDY: Glad to be here.
OLGA: So lovely to be here.
KIM: Let’s dive into the Holy Fuck. Tell me a bit about where you started before you came to this work, how your views were on the merging or the separation of sex and spirituality, and where that’s come to now.
OLGA: I would say that I never put sex and spirituality together, ever. I think that’s a fair statement. Growing up, sex was definitely something that could get you pregnant too soon, and I guess it could also get you sick, and abstinence was the high road. Yeah, sex and spirituality never went together from my point of view.
ANDY: I’d say something fairly similar. I didn’t really have a traditional spirituality growing up. Had a lot of mama issues, which we probably shouldn’t spend a ton of time on, but definitely grew up surrounded by this constant barrage of messaging that Mom was to be the one throughout my whole life who was the closest and most intimate person to me—and anyone else was a threat. That threw a monkey wrench in the burgeoning of sexuality in young adulthood.
It wasn’t until young adulthood that I really became a committed Christian, and if anything, that gave me a more expansive sexuality, which might sound funny, because stereotype would suggest it would be the opposite. But at least there was the beginnings of the idea that this was a spiritual path and not simply about physical pleasure. Certainly, the union of body, mind, and spirit were all of a piece and not three separate things.
At least commutatively, I began to get that, but it was only very recently that it became an experienced reality.
OLGA: I would say that in our marriage, that wasn’t there for us for decades.
KIM: The sexual piece?
OLGA: Well, seeing sexuality and spirituality as one.
ANDY: Basically, the union of our bodies was completely intertwined with every other form of union we were trying to build up in our marriage.
OLGA: Yeah. I just didn’t see them as the same, sex and spirituality.
KIM: Right. Okay. What happened? What made you guys dive into looking at your sex life or deepening that or healing that?
OLGA: I would say that Andy definitely had more of an interest in sexuality and basically wanted us to have sex more, and I just kept complaining, “Yeah, me too! But I just don’t have a libido.” “Where is my libido?”
It was so frustrating to me because I had enjoyed sex before, and I had had a libido before, but it just felt for years like it disappeared. And that was so frustrating to me, and I know it was so frustrating to Andy too. You know, probably we somehow manifested learning about you. I think at some point I said, “Okay, I have to do something about this. I have to figure out how to find a libido again.”
I had followed Wim Hof for a long time, and I got the newsletter from Wim Hof saying that you had interviewed him. I said, “Whoa, wait! Someone talking about sex is interviewing Wim Hof?” I listened to that right away, and I just fell in love with you. And I listened right away to every free podcast and free video that you had. That’s where it started. Yeah, that was the summer of 2019. And I listened to every free thing you had, and I think I wrote to you, saying, “I need Vaginal Kung Fu! When is it coming?” Because I didn’t know when it was going to be offered again. As soon as it was offered, I signed up right away. And that was the start of it.
KIM: Fantastic. You dove deep into your vagina and your sexual self-knowledge. And what happened? You’ve taken all the salons, correct?
OLGA: Vaginal Kung Fu, Coming Together, and Sexy Mama.
ANDY: I still have to do Sexual Mastery for Men. I haven’t done that yet.
KIM: Okay. Great. Tell me how your relationship began to shift, because I know that one of the major examples or culminations of your work together was your third baby, but before even getting to that, what changes did you see in your sex life?
ANDY: Well, I think that our journey in how we brought babies into this world represents the overall journey very well. We had a pretty lackluster sex life, with good moments here and there, going into our first child, and then things just really took a nosedive during that pregnancy.
We stopped having sex at all, and we did the birth a pretty standard Western medical way. We hired some midwives, but they were hospital-based and basically did the same thing that any OB practice would do. After the first visit, I was just horrified.
I said, “Oh my gosh, there is this whole world literally inside of my wife that I’m just so fascinated by and never knew about. I have no access to it and instead, these total strangers are sticking instruments and gloved fingers in there and we aren’t doing anything.” And I just took a complete nosedive.
Things improved a little bit with the second pregnancy, but it wasn’t until we found your courses that we began to develop a common language where I could explain how unbelievably fascinating and wonderful—and not just in a physical pleasure way, but a deeply spiritual way—I found all this embodied in her sex organs.
I never, ever, ever get tired of exploring and finding new ways to discover what’s there and give her pleasure and receive pleasure myself. It just never, ever gets old. I think I’ll have to let Olga explain it herself, but until we started taking your courses, I think that seemed weird and creepy and just not quite right to her—and now we’re totally together on that.
And it culminated with the free birth. Finally, the only two people in the room doing anything the entire pregnancy and the birth itself were me. My hands were the first human hands to touch our baby before he came out, and the only human hands to touch him, except for his sister’s, for the first few months of his life, were ours. It just felt so amazing and right.
KIM: You know what I love? I’ll let you speak in a moment, Olga, but I just wanted to say that I really love that your instinct kicked in, Andy. When you saw these strangers putting their hands and instruments in your woman’s vagina, something in you instinctively said, “There’s something not right about this. This is not everyone’s property. This is my woman and her body, and this is an intimate act.” You had this intuitive sense that this was something for you guys to embark upon, not this thing to be shared with strangers.
Obviously, I’m a big proponent of free birth. I think that a lot of people through that process will question or dismiss their instincts and feel a sense of revulsion seeing that, but then just brush it off and say, “Well, these are the experts; what do we know? We have to turn all our power over to them.” [Laughs] I love that you had that recognition, which became a guiding principle for you.
And through this work you were able to reaffirm that your desire for your wife’s body and her pussy—that insatiable desire for her pussy—was actually completely natural and normal, rather than feeling disconnected from it.
Olga, what was your experience of that?
OLGA: Oh, absolutely. That is such a good summary of it. When he was repulsed by all of this, I was still entrenched in Western medicine. I was just saying, “Well, you know, it’s just a medical thing. That’s just what’s done.” It’s been a long journey since then, and I have gradually stepped away from Western allopathic medicine since then. But at the time, I was still entrenched in it and said, “What’s wrong? Why is this so repulsive?”
But now, it just makes so much sense. I’m so proud of it now and so thankful for it and for Andy’s view. Yeah, just the way this birth was, it’s amazing in that sense. Just absolutely amazing.
Yeah, that’s a great, great summary of it, that his instincts were just spot on. In the first birth, I was still entrenched in Western allopathic medicine and I couldn’t appreciate it. But now, I so appreciate it. Yeah.
And in terms of our sex life, as soon as I started listening to you, [laughs] it just exploded. We started having sex all the time and then got pregnant at the end of Vaginal Kung Fu. I was 43 at the time, he was 44, and there we were, pregnant and ecstatic about it. But yes, absolutely, that’s a great summary, that his instincts were just fabulous. I couldn’t appreciate it at the time, but wow, do I appreciate it now.
ANDY: But I have to add something else to it. Our relationship was in a completely different spot at that time. When tensions would arise—and this one was a big tension—we’d end up in this adversarial space where each saw the other as the problem, and it turned into a big fight.
All of a sudden, when she completed VKF and our sex life just really exploded in the best possible way, I think in both of us, there was a really big switch that got flipped in our minds. “Oh, sex has been an area of a lot of tension for us for two decades now, and if we can come together on this, we can come together on anything.”
OLGA: Yes, so true!
ANDY: And now, it’s not that we agree on everything. There are still plenty of areas of life where—just today, we were batting something around where we’re seeing things pretty differently, but there’s no longer that adversarial stance. It’s just, okay, there’s tension, but this is cool. We know how to have a fight.
OLGA: Yeah. Our sex life has totally unified us.
ANDY: Absolutely.
OLGA: Even if we come across an issue where we’re seeing things differently, we can come at it from a unified place. Yeah.
ANDY: It’s also better.
KIM: What’s that again?
ANDY: I’d say the overwhelming majority of the time when the tension arises, we go straight to, “Okay, this is a problem to solve together.”
KIM: Right. It sounds like having this foundation of your sex life has given you the strength so that even when you do come to obstacles or disagreements, you have that ultimate base within each other, right? That makes it harder to push you off. Do you remember “Weebles wobble but they don’t fall down?” Are you guys old enough for that? [Laughs] These toys that you can push over and they go from side to side but they never actually fall down.
OLGA: Exactly.
KIM: I think that when a couple has that strength and that rooting power together, then that’s what happens when they come upon things.
I love something that you wrote to us. You said you had your sights set on a free birth, and these courses that you took with me reinforced that, but, “We knew that in order to maximize chances of success, we had to get really serious about clearing fears and traumas and being in a state of deep physical, mental, and emotional connection.”
I love that because that’s what we talk about; the foundation of my work is that we need to clear out the blockages between us—whatever is preventing us from coming together and feeling like we do want to have sex every day. And I love what you said that in your previous pregnancies, you don’t think you even had sex once. And during this pregnancy, you saw it as your duty. You had sex nearly every day and even the night before he was born.
OLGA: Yep, absolutely.
ANDY: The night before he was born, we actually hit some new highs, I’d even say.
OLGA: Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? You were talking about the weeble-wobble toys—I never realized that our sex life could be that foundation that keeps the toy from toppling over. I never saw it in that light. Yeah. I think that’s what I now see with sex and spirituality merged as one.
In our relationship, I never saw sex as something that could be the foundation. That was a real shift in my mindset.
But yes, we did have sex all the time during this pregnancy. All the time.
ANDY: I marvel at the unbelievable power of all this. We’ve been married 20 years, together for 22 before we even started this path. Postpartum has had its roadblocks. We’re slowly getting our sex life back up to where it was during pregnancy.
We’re talking about maybe a little over a year versus 21-plus years; that has been enough to completely change the wiring. Just a little bit of yeast leavens the whole batch. We keep looking at each other and saying, “We cannot unlearn what we’ve learned.” Even if we have a rough day and a rough week and sex goes out the window for several days or whatnot—
OLGA: There’s no way we’re going back.
ANDY: There’s no way we’re going back.
OLGA: We’ve told each other that. Oh yeah, we know too much now.
KIM: That’s amazing. I love it. Share with me a little bit more. You had said, Olga, “I see Andy’s hands, his cock, as magic wands healing me.”
OLGA: Yeah! When we first got together and started having sex, I would get a UTI. Every time that we had sex. I went to Western allopathy, and I did the whole antibiotics, even prophylactic antibiotics. I took so many antibiotics, it’s unreal looking back on it. But anyway, every time we’d have sex, I’d get a UTI. Then I had this neural pathway that sex equals UTI. I think there was even something in you thinking, “I’m hurting her. We have sex and I’m hurting her.”
ANDY: Oh yeah.
OLGA: I started to step away from Western allopathic medicine over the decades. So, we found some things that helped, and I changed my diet and started leading a much more healthy lifestyle, so the UTIs diminished, but they didn’t completely go away yet.
In your prodding and your poking incessantly, persistently, and not letting up, you were saying, “If you have a UTI, you’ve got to look at it from all perspectives. What’s causing that? Where is that coming from?”
So, we did some digging and some block-clearing, some trauma-clearing, and we found G-spot orgasms. That was a huge deal, and I gush now. And so now I have this neural pathway that sex is actually healing me and healing the UTI, definitely not causing it.
Yes, now I see his hands and his cock as his magic wands, and they heal me. It’s beautiful.
ANDY: And I’ve had a change in mindset too. I actually see sex play and the sexual act as a prayerful thing. I definitely believe that there’s such a thing as healing prayer, humans being able to channel some divine healing power for one another. Without getting rid of the playfulness at all, I can be in that headspace too. I’m actually imagining light passing through my fingers or my tongue or my cock and going to the places where it’s most needed.
There’s definitely something going on in both of us that’s very different from before.
KIM: That is so amazing.
OLGA: And the UTIs are gone. They’re not coming back.
KIM: That’s fantastic. Tell me a little more about sex healing prayer, because that is such a beautiful perspective. You’re an Episcopal priest, and you’re using your sex life in this way, as we’ve said, as this merging of the sexual and the spiritual with that conscious intention, really elevating the sex act, but using it for its highest purpose. How would you describe that from a spiritual perspective?
ANDY: The pause is because you’re starting to edge me toward the place where it gets a bit wordless.
OLGA: I love that. Tell her about the sex act too, to its highest purpose.
ANDY: Well, I guess the way I would put it is this: I believe that the entire purpose of human existence is to intimately love and make love to as many elements of creation as we can possibly connect to. But in the case of our marriage, there’s one person in my life with whom I’m called to take that to a whole different level.
And like Olga said, both of us grew up with a little bit of the culture of sex being the lower road and platonic connections of the spirit being much more of the high road. And I’ve come to see that that actually cheats us out of something absolutely amazing; there is a connection and a channeling of energy, especially healing energy, but all kinds of different energy. The energy that results in me jumping out of bed in the morning, ready to go after the day with gusto, rather than dreading whatever comes next. And that passes through physical intimacy.
It doesn’t happen automatically. It happens only when we bring real intention to it. But when we do, I’m discovering the rewards are just limitless. And as somebody who believes that God is very real, I absolutely would say God is in that.
KIM: I love that. I’m very open about how I think that the sexual and spiritual are so similar. The idea of surrender and opening and letting a power greater than us enter into us. To me, from the start, there’s always been that parallel, and these are my two favorite things, sex and spirituality, sex and God. [Laughs]
And we were speaking about this before we started recording. I see that there’s been this perversion over millennia, where I think that this was never separated by nature. It was a man-made separation that created this division and the shame and the taboo around it, but naturally, innately speaking—you said it very eloquently—this way of making love with life passionately is best expressed within the microcosm of your intimate relationship. I love that.
Is there anything else that you want to share in that realm of the sexual and the spiritual coming together?
ANDY: Well, I think I could say another word about the twisting and perversion that you talk about. For those folks who are at all familiar with the New Testament and with the tradition that goes with it, you see it happening there. Jesus doesn’t say a single pejorative word about sex anywhere. None of that’s to be found. That’s found later in the New Testament when you read somebody Paul, and even he is pretty clearly responding only to very unconscious and consumptive and abusive forms of sex, which I think he saw in the ancient Middle East all over the place.
But over the centuries, we’ve taken that and tried to universalize it. There are ten whole verses in the whole thing—tiny by comparison to so many other areas that get emphasized—but because of these ten little verses, clearly sex is this base thing that needs to happen behind closed doors and only in a very narrow context and it’s really something dirty and shameful. But that’s a complete misread of what’s actually there, especially if you understand the historical context.
KIM: Yeah, fantastic. It’s been tainted by human interpretation over the years. It’s not really the will of God or nature.
Anything else you want to say? I asked Olga about your magical healing hands and cock, and you talked about the love affair that you’ve had with her pussy and that you’ve finally allowed yourself to really go for it. Is there anything else you would add about that?
OLGA: Reframing sex made me so excited to have an affair with my pussy. Made it not just okay, but fabulous and wonderful.
ANDY: Yeah. Some of the non-intercourse home play that you suggest has just been so amazing. I’m one of those guys who can go after a yoni massage for two or three hours at a time and not even start getting bored. And I’ve always been that way. For you to suddenly show up in our lives and encourage this, and for me to be able to look at Olga and say, “See, that’s what I’ve always wanted to do. Now do you understand why I find this so fascinating? Why I get as much pleasure out of it as I hope you do?” It’s just been absolutely amazing.
And it just amazes me how rare it seems that is. If I just get on social media or the internet or something, women are complaining right and left, “All my partner wants to do is stick it in there and be done in ten minutes.” The thought of spending a full day on foreplay before we even begin doing that is just unconscionable to them, and I’m thinking, what a bunch of idiots! [Laughs] Missing out on so much!
OLGA: And for me, it’s different. I so appreciate that. I feel so lucky.
KIM: Well, it sounds like this was your intuition again, Andy, talking about the origin of the universe. The allusion to the yoni as being—and it is, really—the portal between life and death, so perhaps in your quest for spiritual growth, that also manifested instinctively through her yoni. Right? That is the source and the power portal there. I love that.
ANDY: Yeah. I had an incredible experience during Zach’s birth. When Olga went into labor, as often happens during transition, she went into this otherworldly space between life and death, and there was a lot of fear and uncertainty going on. She just said, “I need you to tell me where I’m at.” I really thought, “Okay, this is going to be a truly free birth. I’m going to be standing here and supporting all the way,” and instead, I ended up checking and she was almost fully dilated but still needed a little bit of help with an anterior lip before he could come out.
I know Olga would say she was so ready to be done that it was all she could focus on, but from my point of view, this sexual and spiritual connection transcended anything I had ever experienced. For the next hour we were just in that space and trying to get that last little bit out of the way. And then half an hour later, we had a beautiful baby in our hands.
I felt I was touching not just my son, but the origin of the universe. It was unbelievably powerful.
KIM: I love that. Is there anything else that either of you would like to add that you feel we haven’t touched on or you want to expand upon?
OLGA: I think just emphasizing the profound shift and thinking around sex. Oh my gosh, it’s just been amazing. Just making life exciting again and our relationship so strong—strong enough that we can deliver a baby by ourselves.
KIM: I think that the birth experience is a reflection of the state of the couple. Birth is a sexual act. It’s the culmination of the sexual act, and when the couple is in really deep harmony and they’re intimately connected, not just emotionally, but sexually connected, the birth is typically very smooth and easy, and it actually brings the couple closer together.
But when a couple comes into a birth and they still have issues and separation and unresolved stuff, that comes into the birth space and manifests as blockages and stalls and complications in birth. Then that will usually create a bigger rift between the couple. They walk out of there feeling more disconnected and separated, often in shock and trauma from what’s happened in the birth experience.
Then that cultural narrative is just, “Oh, well, it’s natural to not have that much sex after you have a baby.” It’s not really that. It’s that this couple has just gone through hell together in the birth experience, and they walk out feeling so disconnected and have no language to articulate that. They’re not allowed to discuss it.
You are a great example of doing the work. You’d been immersed enough in my work at that point to realize, okay, we want this free birth. Now we know why we want it, why we’ve instinctively wanted it, or at least Andy, you were clear on that. Then you took the steps, knowing that you had clearing work to do to really make space for that to happen. And your intimate connection was the key for that to happen.
OLGA: Yeah.
ANDY: Yeah. For sure.
OLGA: It definitely was. It was a textbook birth and smooth and, yes, it was definitely all the foundational special work that we did that made it that way.
You know, another thing, Kim, that I wanted to add is how profoundly this birth and the healing of our sex life has gone back in time and healed the previous two births as well. That has also been super powerful.
ANDY: We’ve got two older girls, and I think they have felt that. Especially out here in California, we have been on some degree of lockdown for longer than I care to admit. And rather than being one of those families that’s just imploded because we can’t get away from each other, we’ve really delved into, okay, well, since we’ve got to be here together anyway, let’s get closer and talk about difficult topics and take advantage of all this family bonding time. I think they have felt that we’re actually in a space to do that, and they do it well.
KIM: Beautiful. I love your commenting that this birth was able to heal the other birth experiences and then create this infusion of healing energy that went backward in time and into the rest of your family.
Amazing. Any final words?
OLGA: If anyone is on the fence about taking these courses, just do it! [Laughs] Yeah. It’s definitely life-changing. Definitely.
KIM: Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing your stories with us.
OLGA: Thank you.
ANDY: Thank you.
[Music plays.]
KIM: If you’d like to learn how to cultivate the life-changing Holy Fuck, join me in the Coming Together for Couples Salon. In this ten-week online program, I show you how to radically overhaul your relationship, taking it from the humdrum to the wild, powerful, and multi-orgasmic. We cover everything from communication skills to orgasm skills and all things in between.
To check out the free preview video series, go to KimAnami.com, look for Sexual Savant Salons, and click on Coming Together. The salon begins in a few weeks. Are you coming?
