Robin All Star Interview
KIM: I’m so glad that you’re here, Robin. One of our Well-F**ked All-Stars!
ROBIN: Thanks for having me. I’m honored.
KIM: She’s a Hall of Famer, everyone. Now that I’ve been doing this feature in the podcasts of Well-F**ked All-Stars, when people come into my salons, they often say that one of their goals is to become one of the All-Stars. In The Well-F**ked Woman Salon, we run a contest of the Well-F**ked Woman Hall of Fame, and Robin has entered the Hall of Fame. She’s the perfect person to talk about her journey.
The topic that I wanted to go into today was around vaginal orgasms specifically. Everybody can have them, which is always my message, but if they’re not doing specific things, then that might be why they’re not having them.
You’ve been working with the jade egg, right?
ROBIN: Yeah. I got the jade egg close to the end of the salon. It’s kind of incredible.
There’s been a lot going on for me in the last couple of months, so there have been periods where I’m consistently working with it every single day, going through all of the exercises, and then I’ll lapse for a week or two. But even to see the change that has happened from that little bit of dedication to it—I didn’t even know you could have a cervical orgasm. I’d been figuring that out with David Deida a little bit.
KIM: Right, because he talks about it.
ROBIN: I said, “Wait. What?” [Laughs] And that was kind of the beginning of it. I went from one of his courses in the spring directly to yours. I swear, I think the egg was the missing piece. I mean, obviously I built on everything that I learned from The Well-F**ked Woman, the surrender piece and everything.
KIM: That’s great. I love when you say that the egg is the missing piece. Because, in my top recommendations to people about the things that they ought to do, that would definitely be one of them. Self-pleasure, yoni massage, jade egg.
One of the quotes that I was really moved by was when you said, “I am wet from tears, from my vagina, my throat, and my heart as it pours out a river of desire.”
Tell us about your journey, especially going from wherever you started with your orgasms, and then to where you’ve ended up.
ROBIN: I was one of those “surface orgasmers,” as you call it. I don’t want to say junk food, but it was very surface, clitoral only, pretty much. If I had a G-spot or a cervical, I don’t even think I realized what it was. It was more this unicorn where I’d say, “Whoa! That was amazing!”
KIM: It showed up once in a while, and you didn’t know how to find it again.
ROBIN: Very rarely. I’d been doing work with David Deida and even Mama Gena a little bit and discovered that there was this thing called a cervical orgasm. My whole life, anytime I had sex, I thought that when I could feel my cervix being touched, that was something bad because there was so much pain and soreness. I just assumed it was a spot of your body to avoid. I had always pulled back or clenched.
Being middle aged, it was kind of shocking, and I went through sort of a sad time of realizing that there was a space in my body that I didn’t even know could find pleasure. That was a huge shift for me.
I feel like through the Well-F**ked Woman, I had to give up a little bit to get there. I think I was almost trying too hard, and I know that piece of surrender is huge. Just being able to surrender and enjoy and not get to an end point.
Going through The Well-F**ked Woman was, on so many levels, whether it was spiritual or creative or work, a renaissance for me in a huge way. Finding the cervix and really working with it through self-massage, through my husband being able to touch and let go, touch and let go, and feeling that kind of pain. I honestly am not sure that I would have been able to appropriately work through it without all of the block clearing that you had us dive into. I think it brought up a lot and allowed me to finally touch those places.
There are all different levels of exploration, but the physical is the first level. I have always been a dry person, and I have Hashimoto’s, which is an autoimmune disease, so a lot of my physical stuff, whether it was low libido or being dry or no energy, was chalked up to, “Oh, you’ve got an autoimmune disease.” So I’d never really given it much thought. I lived in coconut oil. I put it everywhere. I used it for lube. That was the first key when I said, “What is going on?” Even my husband said, “You are so wet!” [Laughs]
It was kind of shocking the first time that I had my first ejaculation because it was before you’d addressed that in the salon. I said, “What is going on?” It was incredible. They say, “Oh, you get older and you’re going to dry up; there’s going to be less feeling.” That was really sort of like drinking from the Fountain of Youth; you’re going backward. The encouragement from the other women in the class much older than me and seeing their development and growth. “Yeah, you can be old and wet!” [Laughs] Or middle-aged and wet.
KIM: Right! So you’re 44, and we’ve been told at large, culturally, that women, from their forties onward, or maybe even earlier, will be challenged with issues like lubrication and libido. As though we’ve got nothing to look forward to at a certain point. You’ve got that, and then you have the additional diagnosis, which could also become an excuse for why you can’t have all of these things.
But your body and your vagina are saying, “Wait a second, bitch! I’ve got this! I don’t need your BS excuses.” [Laughs]
I love that because these are the things that most people hold onto as reasons and that the allopathic community gives without hesitation as excuses for why these things can’t happen. I love producing women through this work who can fly in the face of all of these wrong assertions.
ROBIN: Yeah, truly wrong. It was so blatant. You can have all of these other spiritual experiences. “Oh my God, that orgasm was so much more connected,” or whatever. But there’s dry and there’s wet, and there’s a very big difference. The other huge difference in the last couple of months was my period. I’ve got Hashimoto’s; you’re always going to suffer from really extreme periods. They put me on different medications throughout my life. I used to eat handfuls of Advil. Lo and behold, it was gone. I had my period, but there was no pain. There was only a feeling of release and a kind of nice feeling to know that I wasn’t really fertile at that moment. It was incredible, the difference. All those very, very obvious keys, getting through The Well-F**ked Woman and seeing that.
Then there was the deeper part, where I was talking about those tears of joy you can’t help but cry! When you get to those different levels of letting go and surrendering deep in your cervix and in your vagina, there is just so much. You’ve said it before; it’s like pure therapy. All of a sudden, you let go. And to do that with a partner? He was away from work at the beginning of the salon. I had a couple of weeks to work on it myself and have that experience and cry. But then to do that in that vulnerable space with somebody who I’d been with for 13 years was incredible.
I remember asking you during the salon—there was a piece that I felt was missing physically in my vagina. I was surrendering. I was letting go. I was working on clearing blocks. I was seeing so many changes in myself and in the way that I worked and my creativity, and just the way I interacted with the world. And then there was this physical piece that I felt in my vagina that I just couldn’t find. I remember explaining it to you in one of the questions, and you said, “Yeah, but you should be letting go,” and I just couldn’t figure out what it was.
Working with this egg—oh God. It was so nice in its little nest. [Laughs] It’s definitely woken up the different pieces. It’s almost like I’m building this car [laughs] and then all of a sudden, the egg is putting the gas in, “Okay. Now you can drive this thing.”
Especially because my partner was gone for work, to all of a sudden have a penis in there and say, “Wait a minute! This is amazing!” It just brought me to the realization that I’ve had a lot of sex in my life, even with people that I love that I didn’t want to have it with. It was almost like this disassociation. I remember when I was young, feeling like oral sex was almost more intimate than having vaginal sex. Which now, looking back, is so bizarre because it’s still me taking somebody in. But I could almost disassociate more easily from the lower half of my body; there was just this disconnect, and the egg is actually retraining me to feel that again. Now with the cock inside, I can feel all the different levels. I can feel where the cervix is about to touch, and it’s so much better! [Laughs]
Just last night my husband said to me, “I don’t know if that’s ever happened to us before,” where I strictly had a cervical orgasm. Not from any crazy amount of sex, not from pounding. Nothing. Just intimate connection to my cervix. He said, “You’re doing something in there.” And he’s been practicing as well, working on his own breath and such. But it’s phenomenal.
What that can do for our lives; it is a full circle of being able to really connect to those lower chakras and work with that energy. Because an orgasm is amazing, and obviously it makes us feel great, but I really, truly believe it’s that connection to those lower chakras that we, as humans, have disconnected from, especially women.
I’m a deep believer at this point.
KIM: There are a few things that you touched on that I want to go over. First off is the idea of the numbness. I talk about how most women—if not all—have numb vaginas. There are many reasons, and partly it is because we don’t exercise them, and so any muscle that receives no exercise atrophies.
Then any of the energetics, our experiences, like you said, even having sex with someone you don’t want to have sex with; this is where lube is the great countermeasure for women. Because women are encouraged to use it all the time, even if they’re not wet, and so they just keep reinforcing to their vaginas that “I’m going to override you; your voice doesn’t matter; we have sex whether we want to or not; we are just here to be used. We are just going to placate someone.”
Then all of this trauma and negativity gets reinforced in that space and that disassociation, as you’ve mentioned, increases that sense of disconnect. I talk about how women can get so cut off from their reproductive organs that they literally get cut out in the future.
The egg is beautiful, just bringing this millimeter by millimeter awareness back into that space and reanimating it as this vital part of ourselves.
You were talking about getting to this place of having essential cervical orgasms without touch or without the type of penetration we would normally associate with needing to get to cervical orgasm, because you’ve opened up these energy pathways. Once we’ve created these neural pathways in the body, we don’t necessarily have to use the same physical techniques to get there again. It’s like the idea of energy sex. If we can tune into that neural pathway; bingo, we’re there.
ROBIN: Yeah. It feels really good.
KIM: When you were talking about this lower chakra stuff, what do you think that, overall, as a Well-F**ked Woman, it has done for the rest of your life? I would say that would breed a level of confidence and unstoppability in a woman. In addition to that in your life, how else do you think these extra layers of really deep, powerful cervical orgasms have changed you and your expression out in the world?
ROBIN: Ooh, that’s a big one. It has changed so much for me, honestly. It has a pretty incredible ripple effect, I really believe. It’s funny when you talk about FUKME. If I’m starting to get in a bad mood, my husband will look at me and say, “Do you have a case of FUKME?” [Laughs]
It’s all funny in a very personal way of what I’m experiencing, but also how it affects the way we interact as humans. In one of the feedback things, I talked about the spiritual aspect, which is a huge, broad thing to explain, but I really believe that this piece that you’re teaching is the one missing thing for humans in our spirituality.
I feel like in all religions—and you can call science the biggest religion right now—all the pleasure is cut out. It’s so upsetting that religions cut out the pleasure piece of it, that sexuality. I guess the Taoists have probably touched on it more.
But even with science, anything that’s sugary, cut that out; if you have sex, you’re going to get STDs. There are just so many reasons for us not to own our own pleasure. I think for me to start feeling that and understanding my cervix and this whole universe of pleasure inside me kind of reconnects the whole spirituality piece. It was, for me, the missing piece.
Each choice that we make is a lot heavier now. The choice of the way that you respond to somebody in the gas station or the choice of how you respond to your child; there’s such a depth to it because we’ve brought in those lower chakras. If you’re going to start not having pleasure, you are going to be kind of rude to the rest of the world.
I’m an artist, and I sell clothing to women. I hand-paint clothing. I’ve got my little booth, and I usually travel all across the country and do big festivals and yoga festivals and stuff. But because of COVID, I’ve just been doing local things.
Your course and Deida shifted my whole desire for what I was doing. It was more about being able to try to give pleasure to women through a second skin.
Just because of what you’d been teaching me, I was more rooted in my pleasure. The interactions that I was able to have with women on that level—I had women in tears telling me the most beautiful, vulnerable stories. They’d say, “Why am I talking about this?” [Laughs] Or they’d get dressed and say, “I’ve never felt this good!” It was so, so rewarding.
Your journey of finding your own pleasure and then learning to share that with other people is a ripple effect. Not only is my personal life changing by being able to have orgasms, but there’s a ripple effect of affecting other people in my spectrum, whatever the work may be. I didn’t think I was going to feel like a healer by dressing women with certain designs in clothing, but they just end up expressing their innermost dreams because it starts that conversation, and that feels really amazing.
I feel like if everybody was forced to go to a school like yours—“Screw college, gap year; everybody has to go and learn about their vaginas and their cocks!” [Laughs]—we’d be a happier world! I truly believe that.
It’s pretty awesome to see the immediate effects. The more you work here, the more it’s reflected in the people that you meet.
KIM: And it just infuses you. You become this vehicle and channel for this energy of sensuality and owning yourself and creativity. I always talk about the connection between sex and creativity. What have you noticed about that?
ROBIN: Oh yeah, absolutely. I had bought an art nouveau 1800s hand mirror. I imagine it was held by a courtesan, and so I would go into my studio and I’d pussy gaze. I’d talk to my pussy before I’d start painting these clothes for women.
Artemis was one of the goddesses that I worked on this summer, and that was kind of infused into my clothing. Nobody thinks about it; clothing is a second skin, and you just go shopping at Target and say, “Who cares?”
I saw women in Polo shirts and jeans—I’m from the Northeast and that’s how women dress—and they’d put on this organic dress and say, “Oh my God!” [Laughs] I felt so good being able to share that creative juice. Because it is. It is super juicy.
It’s very obvious when you’re disconnected. I went through some really, really challenging times with my teenage son and so much drama. I fell off the wagon, so to speak, and it was kind of amazing to see, with the lack of practice, with the lack of breast massage, I had my first bad period right after. I’d had two or three months of just sailing and then all of a sudden stopped the practice and didn’t want to have sex because I was so angry! [Laughs]
My husband kept looking at me and saying, “I think Kim would tell you the problem!” But it’s incredible to see the effects. It’s a whole realm of self-care that most of us don’t know about. You think that you’re just having sex to connect with a person, but it’s so much more than that. So much more.
KIM: I love that. I feel like when people go through my work, they get this new FUKME filter where someone will be in traffic and screaming at somebody else and they’ll say, “This chick today really had FUKME. She was driving around…” Or “The lady in the store really had FUKME. I couldn’t believe it. She was in such a state.” It becomes their new lens for looking at the world, seeing whether people are well-fucked or under-fucked, and then that becomes the ultimate explanation of their behavior as the source of their bliss or their discontent.
ROBIN: Yeah. It’s funny, because I lived with the French for about ten years in the Caribbean, and they have that expression. Anybody that seems uptight, “poorly laid” is the expression.
KIM: Really! I didn’t know this.
ROBIN: It’s definitely an insult, but it’s the same thing as FUKME. [Laughs] Of course, leave it to the French to know that, you know?
KIM: That’s amazing! Yes, it’s FUKME in French. If anyone else is listening to this and there’s a word in your language that expresses it, please get in touch and let us know because I want to put together a collection of this phrase in different languages. Wow! Oh my gosh, that’s a great idea! I love this. Okay. That’s going to be my Christmas email to everybody, “Please help me out and translate FUKME for me in every language possible.” Awesome.
I talk a lot about the pathway to these deeper, more transcendent orgasms. You started out talking about more superficial or lighter orgasms, which I typically classify as clitoral orgasms. They’re easier to attain; they’re more physical. You don’t need to bring in as much of yourself. You don’t need to fully open and surrender and let go of all of these deep levels.
When we go through that, then we do. The proof is in the pudding. We get to these deeper places of the vaginal G-spot, cervical orgasms. But it’s really a path of committing to looking at our demons. I call it demon hunting or shadow observing. Going into our potentially dark places, being willing to pull up the rug and see what we’ve stuffed under there over the years and have a good look at that stuff.
Then, through that, we come out the other side, which is typically orgasm. If you build it, they will come.
Talk to me about the block-clearing process for you. What did that look like, and could you see the correlation between clearing a block and a kind of corresponding shift in your physicality?
ROBIN: Yeah, absolutely. It was funny because when we first went into the block-clearing, I said, “I don’t have that much to clear.” [Laughs] And that list of what we have taken on as beliefs that aren’t real just kept getting longer and longer and longer. I said, “What?” Honestly, it was kind of shocking, and it was definitely sort of at the same time that I was working with my cervix being touched and seeing that pain. I mean, it was real pain, as you would feel if you’d been chopping wood for two days straight and you touched your muscle and then said, “Ah!” But because it’s internal, we think that somehow, that’s not a place we could own and touch.
But once I started saying, “Okay, this is something that needs to be massaged through,” I worked with it. “What block am I still holding onto?” And the surrender piece, being vulnerable with somebody else; it seemed a lot easier for me to touch my cervix myself than allowing another person to do so.
It almost felt like I had to get past myself in order to allow my vagina and cervix to be touched in ways that I didn’t like in the past. It already had some trauma in there, but why did I allow that trauma? Why did I disconnect to allow that to happen to me?
And that was huge. That brought a lot of tears once I started to get to the surrender piece of allowing myself to be touched.
When you’re getting a massage, it hurts, and then all of a sudden it hurts so good and then that knot lets go. [Gasp] That’s an orgasm in and of itself. That let-go is just so incredible. It’s hard work. The shadow part is hard work, and it keeps coming up. That’s kind of what I was talking about before; everything starts to be more real or more. If you react to somebody with a FUKME attitude, what is it? What is that block that’s stopping you, and where is that coming from?
I just went through a pretty hard time, as I was saying, and the couple of orgasms that I’ve had over this last week have been almost more incredible for the hard time that I had. Because I feel like they were more blocks that were coming up in my life. It’s almost like you’re harvesting that energy, that negative side, to push through to another level.
The block clearing is intense. I’m sure some people have even more trauma. I don’t think that I’ve experienced some really, really dark things, but it’s nice to have all of the help that you walked us through. Because what was probably most shocking to me was how many blocks were there and how to get through that gracefully and still live our lives and raise families, and do whatever we’re doing. Unearthing some of that stuff was big, but so worth it. It’s incredible how much we carry around inside us.
KIM: Exactly, yeah. Wim Hof calls it the issues in our tissues. The stuff that we have lodged within us that internalizes and takes on form. Whatever is in the mind, in the emotional body that we don’t process, lingers in the physical body and gets placed there. My philosophy is that all of the so-called growths or cysts or blocks or things that grow within us are just stuff that we’ve suppressed and shoved away and have not wanted to look at. And then they grow in some kind of malignant fashion to whatever degree.
And then, if people are conscious enough to take an empowered view of their healing, they will recognize that and invite those things to unpack and reveal themselves.
And that’s essentially what we do in this salon; we try to find those areas, and I give people tools to figure out what could be a block. What could be something that we’ve repressed and haven’t looked at? Because we’re trained as a culture not to do these things. Not to be radically honest, not to speak the truth. It’s better to speak a white lie, not to hurt someone’s feelings, not to rock the boat. All of this stuff that’s incredibly dysfunctional and unhealthy but has become the real MO in our culture. Gaslighting every which way you look, and we’re living in the biggest gaslighting experience of our entire lives right now.
The microcosm of that is what can we do and examine in our own lives that are being gaslit? And how are we gaslighting ourselves? How are we being dishonest with ourselves?
This idea of being willing to turn inward and face all of the places and the things within us that we haven’t looked at, that we’ve been afraid of looking at or didn’t even know we should look at. We didn’t know there would be an important purpose in looking at them. What you described earlier about the cervix being painful is so common for many women. They feel a tightness; they often get sharp pain. “Cervical orgasm? I can’t even touch my cervix without discomfort.” It’s a really crazy idea that that could be a source of pleasure for them. I say that’s the point; there’s so much stored in there, so much trauma, tension, tightness, stress, so now the main expression of it is pain. We have to gingerly, carefully, lovingly step into that space. Yoni massage is a wonderful tool to really unwind and tap into and de-numb the vagina, and then, as you mentioned, the jade egg is a way to get in there. It’s like a map. It’s going on this archaeological exploration of this territory to unearth what’s in there.
I think you used the phrase a “no-man’s-land” or a “no-woman’s-land.” It’s this unknown void of sensation, of geography, and we’re really going in there to map out all of these places. By doing that, we regenerate that articulation, the sensation, that sentience that is the true expression of our vaginas.
I often talk about being led by your vagina. I noticed this early on in my jade egg practice; the more I used the jade egg, the more I began to feel like my vagina was its own consciousness. It was its own entity in me. There I was, walking down the street, and there was my vagina, strutting down the street with me as this sentient entity.
ROBIN: She says, “Turn there!” [Laughs]
KIM: Exactly! “Him! I want him! No, I don’t want him!”
That becomes the voice of truth when we unearth and clear away all of the debris and the stuff that’s mutating that signal and that voice, not allowing it to express itself clearly. Truly, we are led by our vaginas. “My vagina, my compass.” This becomes a beautiful, leading place in our lives.
It’s the source of all things. Why wouldn’t it be the place that we gain our deepest intuition and insights from?
ROBIN: Yeah. I think what I really appreciated with your course was being walked through it, because it brought up a lot of my own personal sadness and shame of allowing certain things to happen.
I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s after the birth of my son in my twenties. And you know, you’re young and you say, “Oh, okay, that’s what it is.” “Take this pill for the rest of your life and you’ll be fine.” You kind of tumble down this path. Basically, disease is just us not communicating with what’s going on in our body, right? It’s the thyroid, so my voice—I probably wasn’t saying what was going on in my heart and in my cervix.
People talk about, “Well, are you leading with your head or your heart?” Well, what about your cervix? [Laughs] There’s that third piece. There’s never two without three, and it’s just kind of an interesting thing, looking back at that age. Had I had this journey and this education back then, I would’ve been able to stop a train of events, but I have a daughter now and I can tell her, “You know what? You can speak up and change things.”
If you’ve got disease, first there’s pain, right? If I feel like I’ve never addressed the pain in my cervix, what does that lead to, cancer? Because then you’re just never addressing why there is pain. Why did I not speak out for all those years, so I ended up with some random disease where a doctor said, “Yeah, that’s what you have, and that’s why you’re never going to be wet”? Well, take that! [Laughs]
KIM: Right. When the deeper message there could be exactly what you’re saying. Wetness is a sign from the body. If we can’t say no, the vagina says no. “I’m not ready. Don’t let anything in here until I’m wet.” And we say, “Throw the lube on and slather it up.” And the vagina says, “Fuck, bitch! I didn’t do that. I’m not ready for this!”
ROBIN: Imagine on the opposite spectrum, if a guy couldn’t get hard—which is basically the same thing as a woman not getting wet. Would we just stick a strap-on on him? No! [Laughs] We’d say, “There’s something wrong here.”
It’s crazy. It’s an education that I hope spreads like rapid fire. I think it’s probably what the world needs. It’s this weird fear/pleasure, fear/pleasure, fear/pleasure. If people just went toward pleasure, nobody would be sick right now.
KIM: That connection between the throat and the vagina; we talk about it even in birth. We try to open up the throat with sound and expression and moaning to help open up the vagina and the cervix. That connection is strong.
You’re not the first person I’ve heard talk about being diagnosed with something like Hashimoto’s, and then there’s this underlying sexual component. Of course, in the medical profession, they wouldn’t make that more metaphysical, symbolic connection of how these places are not talking to each other and then manifesting in these symptoms, but I do.
ROBIN: If I walked in and said, “My cervix is sore and that’s why I have Hashimoto’s,” [laughs] it probably wouldn’t work.
KIM: They’d say, “Here’s a referral for a psychiatrist. I think we need to further medicate you because you’re talking crazy, girl!”
Is there anything else that you want to add that you think is vital that we haven’t covered yet in this whole topic of opening up into different orgasms and your journey there?
ROBIN: Not really, other than just keep going toward pleasure. I think that it’s a really hard thing in our culture right now. It almost feels selfish in a weird way. I was talking to my sister about this just this morning; there’s so much suffering and pain. All you have to do is turn on the news and it’s this crisis and that crisis. To choose pleasure and self-care and self-pleasure yourself so that you can shift the world seems very controversial. But honestly, I feel like that’s truly the only way that we will create change at our individual level. Choosing pleasure and self-care and love on a macro scale. Nothing is going to change by just being angry or holding picket fences or saying, “You’re sick and I’m not.” Any of that kind of stuff is useless.
But for us to really follow these journeys for ourselves and the inner universe that we have, the capability to have pleasure, I think can really change things on a grander scheme. “Be selfish. Do it. [Laughs] Just do it.”
KIM: That’s beautiful advice, which in another framework would be, “Go fuck yourself,” but in the most loving, positive way. Go fuck yourself and your partner if you want to change the world. The change literally happens from the deepest place within.
Wonderful. Thank you so much. This has been awesome, and I love that you’re here to share your inspiration and be a beacon of light and pleasure for others to show them that if you can do it, they can do it.
ROBIN: Thanks for your teachings. You’re doing amazing work, girl. I really appreciate it. I’ll see you in February!
KIM: See you then!