Squirting Saved Our Marriage – Transcript
One of my absolute most favourite concepts in ALL of my work is the idea of:
Fuck them until you change them.
This means that our sex acts have the power to transform us.
But only when they hit a certain level of Anami gourmet-style sex.
The big barometric question I always ask people about their sex lives, and the way you can tell whether you’re having Anami-style gourmet sex or plebeian junk-food sex, is:
Does sex change your life?
Do you feel energized, rejuvenated, euphoric, healed, transformed and like you’ve seen God?
If not, you’re doing it wrong.
Anything other than that isn’t hitting the mark.
At least in Anami Land.
All-star interview: Jared and Vi
KIM: Welcome, Vi and Jared. It’s amazing to have you here.
VI: Thanks for having us, Kim.
JARED: Yeah, it’s awesome to be here.
KIM: And you both, I was saying earlier, have this lit-up glow in your eyes and look like a wonderfully well-fucked couple.
KIM: You can see the sun-kissed on your faces.
So tell us a story of where you were and how you found this work and what happened along the way.
JARED: Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Starting back at the beginning, probably like a year and a half ago—well, maybe about a year ago—we would’ve—Vi found your podcast—or your Instagram page actually, through like a share or a share through somebody on Instagram.
Feeling asexual
It was during a time in our relationship where we were like pretty disconnected. We would’ve been a couple that was like, “Yeah, when we have sex, like everybody gets off and that’s good enough for us,” kind of thing. But Vi had gone through a period where we’re just like, “Oh, yeah, actually, she’s kind of feeling asexual and so we’re like, “I guess this is our new reality,” that kind of thing.
VI: I just kind of obsessed over your Instagram page for a while and just like scrolled and read every post. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, this is so interesting. I feel like I’ve been missing something for so long and I feel like I found it. Like this is the missing piece I’ve been looking for but didn’t know how to get there.”
Daughter of a preacher man
VI: So I grew up with a pastor/mission work as my dad. So we, as girls, were always submitted to, I don’t know, male’s needs, or taught to—like we weren’t allowed to wear shorts or like even tank tops. Like don’t show your shoulders kind of thing and skirts were preferred going to church. So a lot of sexual suppression and men were always talked as people who we tempt, like we’re a temptation for them.
So this was my whole relationship with sex, so I actually never even remember ever masturbating or anything. One time I actually got punished for talking about where babies came from with my friends kind of thing and just like the pieces I put together about sex.
I think from there on, I just suppressed it even more. Like even talking about it was just never a thing and we actually got married virgins. I would just never touch or touch anybody else, like that was just wrong.
When we finally got married, the night of our—I just like chugged some champaign to numb my nerves because I was just like, “Yeah, now everything is accessible, now I have to be ready and like give myself to this man.” Yeah, not my fondest memory.
Both had religious upbringings and suppression
JARED: [Laughs] Again, like my background, too, had been like—we were both pretty religious upbringings and that really set the stage for most of our like adulthood so far, where it was like—we’re like going through stuff and without realizing a bunch of it, we are—there was a ton of sexual suppression. Even I didn’t have like a proper view of like what is possible for sex, even for me, and like all these things. My parents have been like, “Oh, yeah, there’s like a ton of like—we talk about sex a ton,” and it wasn’t that way. They talked about it but it’s very like just—
VI: Men want it, women don’t.
JARED: Yeah. There’s lots of convincing so that’s what I downloaded. This is like all set the stage for pretty much of the like ten years of our marriage is just this like, okay, we’re both super-suppressed. We have figured out how to orgasm and I’m like stoked at my last three minutes. She’s pumped if she gets an orgasm. We’re like, “Dude, I guess this is our life.”
VI: And well, I just also inwardly had vowed that I was—because I would’ve heard like men just always complaining about their women and like how they’re like never satisfied and how they never want sex, that kind of thing. So I vowed inside of myself, like I was going to be a good woman, and I was going to have a satisfied man and husband.
So I just never said no. I said whether I want it or not, like I was at least going to give him the satisfaction of having sex even if I didn’t have an orgasm.
It’s a really hard thing to say, but in a way I just kind of said yes to like rapey sex for like eight years. Like I just put myself in the room, spread my legs, I’m like, okay, numb myself, and mentally leave the room, let it happen, and he had no idea. Often, I would initiate it because I could feel him wanting it again. Like even if he didn’t say, I’m like, “Okay, it’s been a week. Otherwise he’s going to be a mess of a man if I don’t give him sex.” So I’d initiate it and let’s just get it over with and then I can have my man back again.
JARED: And the truth for me, too, was like I was like so disconnected from myself, I felt like I was a mess if this didn’t—like if it didn’t happen, if I didn’t have my like 30 seconds of glory or whatever. Just like, yeah, the dynamic, it just didn’t get better.
VI: Well, it was like deconstructing faith. I was falling from like deconstructive sites and like accounts and so one of the people on there came out as asexual and she described everything I felt. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, this is me. I don’t feel attracted to sex ever. Like I want companionship, and I want to feel safe and all of these things. I don’t want sex ever. Like I don’t desire it. I literally do it for him.”
But the truth is, is like I could fantasize about other relationships. I just felt there was more out there. Like maybe out there, there was something bigger and better, but it just wasn’t here. Like that wrestling within myself constantly and I would say to just, I don’t know, God, universe, like something, one of the nutritionists I followed one day was on her story, just like, “I’m grateful for Kim who helped me find my femininity. Like she really helped me find myself in my feminine and stuff like that and discover myself.”
I was like, “Hm.” Just a spark, like I could’ve just clicked past the story. Like it could’ve been just like, “Oh, yeah, next, next.” But that one like came up and I was like, “What? Click, let’s see. I’m just curious.” And it went to your page, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh.” First post I was intrigued. I was like, “Okay, next one,” and the next one and next one. I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, she has a podcast, too. Let’s go find her podcast.”
Listened to your first episode, I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, okay. This is so exciting. She’s saying I can have all these orgasms and actually want sex and desire it and like be horny and really want it. Like have more orgasms than he does, okay. Wow. This is going to be really exciting for Jared. I’m going to tell him when he gets home because he wants me to have sex and he’s like—I could feel him be disappointed. I wanted more, why doesn’t she want it? I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, he’s going to be so excited.”
I’m like reluctantly, nervously share, and I’m like, “I found this thing, I feel like I could maybe—like something was coming alive in me. I think I can have orgasms and want sex like she says.” Jared is just like, “She’s teaching Tantra, Vi, like that’s from the devil.”
I’m like, “We don’t even believe in the devil!”
JARED: Yeah. I would’ve loved that story to be like, “Yeah, I just said a wicked, “Fuck, yes,” and then we started with you there. But no, I did like a big old, “Fuck, no,” and “You know what? That sounds great but there’s…” Like all these uncomfortable things I would’ve—I’m just pulling in from my back and I’m like, “Yeah, hard pass, Vi. I know you want to have more sex but forget it. That just doesn’t sound awesome.”
VI: That kind of like—that spark that came alive in me immediately kind of like allowed itself locked away again. I was like, “Okay.” But I remember saying to you, like,
“Okay, we can keep going this way, the way that we’re going, but I feel like I’m slowly dying. Like I’m just going to keep dying. I feel dead inside and just numb. This feels like a way for me to come alive.”
Then I think it was a month or two before you were like—you actually listened to one of your podcasts.
JARED: It’s not been the first time that she’s given like a pretty big ultimatum of some sort, or me, I guess. Like, “Hey, this is where I’m going, or this is the stuff that I’m processing. Either I’m fucking growing, Jared, and you can come along, if you want, or like, “You know what? Just do your thing, we’ll just die together or something.”
VI: No, I won’t die. You can die.
JARED: “You will die, Jared,” she won’t die. And so, yeah, I start like—I’m like, “Well, I might as well.” I flip on a podcast while I’m hanging laundry and I forget which one specifically, but then like the stories that like you were talking about with these people, I was like, “Okay, this isn’t just like one person that’s having this experience. This is like there’s tons of people that are talking about—and there’s nothing that these people have to gain other than to just share awesome stories.” I’m like, “Yeah, okay, this makes sense.” And so I came back to Vi eventually. I was like, “Hey, so I’ve been listening to the podcast.” She’s like, “Dude, welcome to the world.”
VI: I was like, “Show me. Show me that you actually care about this.”
JARED: But like the couple weeks of me like listening to a podcast and then like, “I think this one’s awesome,” send it to her, like “Here’s one about period sex,” like send it to you. “Here’s one about somebody, they’re telling a story about squirting in public and how awesome that is.” I’m like, “Send it.” I’m like, “This is wicked.”
And it was really just like taking that minute to like—the door had cracked open in me a little bit. I’m like, “Okay, I should just let it in just a little bit more.” I was like, “Oh, this is actually what I want. This is like a thing.”
I think some of that context, too, and maybe we’ll touch on that a little bit later and be like, some of the polarity—like the polarity in our relationship was totally off. There was so much that we were doing that was—and still so much that we’re figuring out even since the course and during the course, that totally was part of those dynamics.
But yeah, like it was the beginning of that journey. It was like, “Okay, now we can share this stuff.” There was a bit more of a common language. Then we started hearing about the courses, because you talk about those quite a bit. It was like, “Okay, let’s look at doing one of these courses. How much does the course cost?” I’m like, “Okay, that’s a lot of money.”
But then we were thinking, “You know what? We could spend the same amount of money on therapy in our relationship, and I don’t know how far you’d get? But you know what? We’d either spend the money on the course and we get to the end of the course and if nothing’s changed, then okay, we at least tried something. But if we spend the money and everything changes, then it’s the best money that we’ve ever spent.”
And like I think sitting here talking to you now, it’s probably pretty clear that if this is the best money that we’ve ever spent for our relationship, potentially like ever.
Within the first two weeks of the salon, it was like that kind of value in our relationship. So much had changed, so much had begun to shift for us in those first two weeks. We were like, “Dude, this could’ve been 10K. This could’ve been way more than actually—well, what we actually paid.”
But doing that really caused us to not only like experience the work but invest in it. In ourselves as well.
VI: Yeah. Like a university crash course for our relationship. Like you’d pay for a degree like in a heartbeat, go into debt for it. And I’m like, “If we want to be happy for the rest of our lives, wouldn’t it be worth it to pay $2,500 to be happy and have like an actual living relationship than not and die further? So just peddling and spinning our wheels, trying to get somewhere?”
JARED: And the speed, too, was like—once we really started getting into the podcast together, we started to bring on some of these concepts of like radical honesty. That started to change a lot of stuff in our relationship and still does. Just starting to realize like, wow, okay. We’ve been lying to each other, been lying to the world so much that that is contributing so much to our disconnection that it was a simple change but like a radical one.
What do you do on a 3-hour sex date?
Then like some of the other practice stuff, like scheduling a three-hour sex date, that was one of the first practices we tried and we’re like, “What the fudge do you do for three hours?”
The first time we’re like, “We made it an hour-and-a-half? What?” Then in like a few months we’re burning through three hours in like what felt like 30 minutes.
We’re like, “Wow, this is like—this could easily be a whole day, and we’d still have more time, or we’d still have more things that we could do or want to do.”
KIM: You guys had made a comment that having sex for four to five hours on a Saturday and still feeling like that wasn’t enough time.
JARED: Yeah. Yeah.
***
Healing and alchemizing through sex
KIM: So you guys have had some powerful healing experiences and alchemizing through your sexual encounters. Would you like to share any of that?
VI: It was like the first week of the salon.
JARED: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a three-hour sex date, which we do on Saturday mornings, which morning sex by the way, the stuff. It’s awesome. So we get in there, set the kids up, and we start—we typically start with some sort of massage. It really helps us. Like I love giving massage and like learning new techniques to try on Vi, as far as just like whole body massage. We start with that. Helps Vi really get into her body.
The emotional catharsis of squirting
We’re starting with that and kind of throughout the massage, a few minutes in, you start talking about how you feel like you have a cry stuck, but you can’t let it out.
VI: Okay. This is still, I think, stuff I need to work on, but my cries get stuck here [putting her hand under her chin]. Okay.
JARED: Right at your neck.
KIM: It’s in your jaw?
VI: Yeah. I have a big cry. I just feel like I could sob. It comes here [putting her hand under her chin] and then I feel it coming down [moving hand down the chest] and I just cry out of my yoni. Like I just—
JARED: Squirt.
VI: Squirt. Like my cry goes down and I cry out of my yoni. Like I can’t sob here [gesturing to her chest] so I’ll sob here [gesturing toward her lap]. Which is just like amazing. It almost feels better. But I’d love to like also figure out how to unblock it here [gesturing to her jaw] so we’re working on like cock worship and all of that stuff and like opening this part [gesturing to her neck].
JARED: Yeah.
VI: But it was like related to our second-born. Like she had severe eczema like when she was younger. So we did a lot in the allopathic world and lots of just—yeah. Things that we’re not proud of. This often comes up.
She’s obsessed with my breasts, and I feel protective of my breasts. Like there’s more stuff that I need to unblock here, so I don’t always like when she just becomes so grabby. She’s six, so I feel like she does a lot of grabbing of my breasts, and I don’t love it. But I also see it as something she’s missing. Like she’s desiring things from me, so I struggle with that a lot.
This morning when we had our sex date, this came up because she had been grabby before that, so I’m feeling guilty, I’m like, “I feel like I’m not able to give something that she’s asking,” so I’m like trying to figure this out. I feel like crying. Like I just feel like I have a sob in me, like I’d like to really cry as Jared is like massaging me.
JARED: And you’re starting to squirt.
VI: And it comes here [putting her hand under her chin] and it just starts to like gush out of my yoni.
JARED: Yeah. Like I’m not even close to like her yoni at this point. Like I’m working on her hips or like something like that.
VI: I’m on my tummy still. So that’s like I’m on my tummy. We’re just on my back area. Like we’re not even close to my yoni. But my yoni doesn’t need to be massaged by itself anymore to squirt.
I’ll just squirt my emotions out at any point.
JARED: It’s awesome. We bought a super-thick sex blanket because of how—like the amount of squirt is like—when you squirt like a cup or two, we’re like, “Oh, that was cute, like that was a little bit.” [Laughs] And now it’s like
If the entire bed isn’t unusable with wetness after we’re done, then it was a small session.
But that’s a bit of an aside.
VI: Then I start crying out of my yoni because I’m feeling guilty as a mom, even though I fucked my kid up or I’ve damaged my child, I completely love and accept myself. Like I’m doing that whole process, like I’m just trying to like find safety within myself, because I’m feeling so guilty for what I’ve done as a mom.
Then Jared jumps and he like sees me jumping off—
JARED: Vi starts weeping through this. So she’s like weeping. I’m like kind of staying there and with my presence and like just massaging different parts of her as we’re going through like muscle groups and things. Especially like her hips, I think at that point, you were on your back And I see you were like—like I can feel, and I can see that she’s like doing demon battle right then and like everything that’s kind of going through. She’s feeling stuff really deeply.
I’m like, “Okay, my woman has jumped off of something. I’m going to go with her.”
She kind of finishes and I go and I like just start having all of these—it was like a horror film or maybe like in a movie where you see like a really violent montage of just like these clips, but it was like—but it was of all these things that have happened to our family.
VI: Both of us at the same time.
JARED: Yeah.
VI: Like we did that, and we both at the same time have these flashes come before us of what we’ve done as parents and the regret that we have and we’re just sobbing together about it.
Then we hold each other. We like just sit with it for a little bit.
VI: I was about to go on a week-long trip to be with my sister who was going to have a baby. I’m like, “Okay, before I go I for sure want to do some cock worship and I would like to also give you a prostate massage just before I go.” Because I don’t know, me going on trips has not always been a positive experience. We feel really disconnected and it’s like often been this resentful thing when I go on a trip. My whole family lives far away from me, so that sometimes means like I want to go see them, if they can’t come to me.
So I really felt like I wanted to do this before I go because I wanted to go into that week, too. After that stuff, healing about our daughter, I wanted to cock worship and I have always felt kind of weird around penises, probably because of the relationship I’ve grown up with, like not knowing like I’m just like that scary stuff. Like that’s only here to take stuff from me.
LOVES HIS COCK. Can’t get enough of it.
But this time it was like I was enthralled. Like this was the first time I just felt love for his cock, and I just genuinely wanted to be there and couldn’t get enough. Like it was just like I wanted to be there. It wasn’t for him; it wasn’t like I was giving him an orgasm or anything. It was for me, and I wanted to be there.
JARED: And I felt that, too. Like she didn’t say anything, she wasn’t necessarily even doing anything super different, but it was like the energy that she was like literally like passing through her hand and through her mouth into my cock. I was like this was the most intense love I’ve felt, like in this way, ever. Like this was wild.
So you continued with the lingam massage for a little while and then we like flip over and we’re like—
Male G-Spot liberation
VI: And then I was like, “Okay, now I want to give you a prostate massage.”
JARED: I’m like, “Sweet.”
VI: [Laughs] And I don’t want you to orgasm because like we’ve had done a couple prostate massages but then he would orgasm. They were really intense, he loved them. But I was like, I want to give you a prostate massage, but please don’t orgasm. Like I don’t want that. Don’t orgasm.
JARED: I’m like—
KIM: Why not?
VI: Oh, I wanted him to come inside of me before I left.
JARED: You didn’t tell me that before.
VI: I was like, “I don’t want you to come while I’m stroking your cock and like giving you a prostate massage.” I just want this to be like a healing thing, like we’ve gone on this journey, now I want this to be like an emotional or like a deeper kind of experience for him, other than like separate from orgasm. I just wanted him to experience it differently, I think.
Orgasm without ejaculation
JARED: It was right then, too, like I’m starting to like get into the ideas of like, okay, building sexual energy, like not ejaculating, because I’d be like everything would be really tied to that. And so I’m like, okay, this will be a good experience, like have this—basically I’ve been wanting like the more challenges to like see how long I can go without ejaculating and experiencing all these pleasures and doing all that separating.
Right at the very beginning of this was like this experience, when she’s like, “Okay, I’m going to do a prostate massage, and I don’t want you to ejaculate.” I’m like, bet, that’s my challenge.
If you are going to come, come inside me
VI: I wanted your semen for me. Like I wanted to take it with me. Like I’m going on a trip, like I want you to come inside of me. I don’t want you to ejaculate when I’m giving you a prostate massage. That was my drive there.
Like I communicated that and there wasn’t ever even a risk.
JARED: Yeah.
VI: It was fine. Like, okay, we agreed on that, and it was not even like, “Oh, my gosh, stop, like I’m coming close.” There was none of that. Like we did it and I was like—
JARED: But it was unreal. It built so much energy down in my base that I was just like—
I was feeling like, oh, fuck, yeah. Like bring me a tiger right now, like I’ll wrestle that thing. Like this is like awesome. Like I think I could win, too.
Then at that point, the doorbell rang, and so I got up out of bed and I was like—there was like—there were some people it could’ve been. So I was like, “Okay, I’ll just go check.” And it was actually just this kid trying to sell bracelets, so I was like, “Oh, I’ll buy some bracelets for my kids.” Passed him a few bucks, bought the bracelets, closed the door, went back, we’re like, “Okay.” Vi’s like—
VI: I wanted to go—like I love doggy, and I love cowgirl. Like they’re one of my favorite and I’m like, “I want to go cowgirl now.” Yeah. It was just like the building was amazing. Like everything felt so good.
Laughing orgasms
JARED: We started belly laughing.
VI: It was just uncontrollable laughter. Like we just couldn’t stop laughing.
JARED: Like if you’ve ever done like weed or something like that and had that laugh where you’re just like—you’re so terrified that it’s not going to stop. It was that. It was like a substance in our body, just good fuck.
It was just like we’re belly-laughing and holding each other and she’s like squirting on me. It was wild.
Healing and alchemizing past trauma through sex
Like it didn’t even stop after that, so we had these orgasms then we’re like holding each other like super close and I have this moment where I like—so I’m sitting there, in like the glow of these orgasms, where I all of a sudden, like I’m back in time as a child and like I used to be a pretty ragey kid, and there was a time when I got locked in a room with my rage until I calmed down.
I always thought like I moved through that, like that’s not a big thing. All of a sudden I visualize I’m there and the door is open and Vi is standing there in the doorway and just like I’m like this kid again, she’s like there, not as my mother or anything, but just as this energy. I like step out of this room and I’m like, “Holy shit, like this is crazy.” I walk out and it was like—so that experience was like the opening the door to being like, “I haven’t really loved myself because anytime that I’ve had like a really big feeling, I’ve gone back in mentally, energetically back into this room and I’ve locked myself away.” But through this experience, I’m actually able to step out.
JARED: Well, I was like, “You’ve helped open the door to like the child who was—who’s emotions were too much,” or something like that. I honestly forget the specific words.
VI: Thank you for opening the door. I don’t know what it was, but both of us visualized the same picture basically.
JARED: And we didn’t say that right after. It was when we were debriefing.
VI: Which is like crazy because we just talked about it later. Like we saw the same thing, so it was like we were—
JARED: Like time traveling somehow. It was wild.
3-hour sex dates: impact lasts for a week
VI: A different time and then that was it. It was like crazy roller coaster of an experience of all things within three hours. Then I went on my trip, and I’ve never had energy like that before. Like I just—
JARED: Like we were connected across the country, which is crazy.
VI: Like the most triggering person could’ve entered the room and I would’ve been like, “Okay, that’s fine.” But I just felt so liberated.
JARED: Yeah. You came home from that trip and our typical experience for our entire marriage was like come home from a trip, energetically blocked out. Me, I’m like, “Oh, my goodness, what’s going on? Can I make these things better or whatever?” And it was not that.
We literally ran to each other in the airport like new lovers who haven’t seen each other in years.
We’re just like—boom—hugging, kissing, in the middle of the airport. It was like, wow, this is awesome. This is the feeling I want every time we go apart. This is unreal.
VI: Yeah.
Like I had never been turned on like that before. Like this is what Kim talks about. I don’t know if I can handle this level of energy. This feels like a lot of energy. Like I feel unstoppable and like scary and excited the whole time, just vibrating.
“I don’t want to ejaculate at all this weekend, but I want to have as much sex as we’re going to have.” And I was able to go through the whole weekend. I’m like, “Yeah, this is sick.”
Rebirthing and recreating your relationship constantly
It felt so good but so different. Like we’d just gone through this whole process of un-marriage, we are calling it, like we are just un-marrying constantly. Whenever we feel like we’re getting back in the—
JARED: We’re trying to save the commitment.
JARED: I mean, we tell as many people as we can about this stuff because it really is the most life-changing work that we’ve ever gone through and so if there’s ever—whenever I tell somebody about it, I’ll try to like read them a little bit, but I’m like, “Hey, you know what? You need to like listen to this because this is going to change your life if you just give it a yes. You know what? Start off with a little yes and let that become bigger.”
From relationship grenades to conscious bliss
Yeah, it’s just like we have done unreal things and find ourselves in a place where we’re able to go through really hard stuff right now. Stuff that we would’ve said could’ve totally grenaded our relationship like a year ago, we’re able to sit with now and work through because we have tools to do it. We have an understanding now. We have language that we share that’s in common. We’re so much better for it and we just want to see other people do the same.
JARED: It is 100% just full lifechanging. Yeah.
You deal with hard stuff, and you don’t just deal with it, you alchemize it. Like it becomes like, “Okay, this is intense, this is uncomfortable, but now this is like what does this turn into now? What beautiful thing grows out of this?”
As soon as you like start to apply yourself into these tools, like you build that path of—like that reinforces the path of like, “Oh, this is possible. This is not just possible, this is happening for us. The guarantee is happening.” Unreal.
VI: Like grateful. We’re so grateful, Kim.
JARED: Yeah. Thank you.
KIM: I love the flow between you guys and how easy and connected you are but just how deep you’ve taken everything. Like you’ve really taken this stuff on and run with it and made it your own and it’s so beautiful to see.
VI: Thank you, Kim.
JARED: Thank you.
