Post-Porn and Reborn – Transcript
To porn or not to porn?
In Anami Land, it’s not even a question.
All of the sexual decisions in Anami Land are borne out of the same principle of spiritual discrimination, applied in the sexual realm.
Which is:
Does it bring me pleasure and KEEP bringing me pleasure, like a multiple orgasm?
Rather than a quick high and then a drop off.
Does this GIVE me energy or drain it away?
Does this BUILD me into a better person, or does it diminish me in any way?
In Anami Land, these aren’t moral questions—they are energetic ones.
Am we growing into the most evolved versions of ourselves?
Or are we indulging in—and getting waylaid by—detours along the way?
In the Anami view of using sex as a pathway to our highest states of enlightenment, self-actualization and intimate connection, porn has no value here.
And we could say it has “anti-value”.
In today’s conversation on all things porn, I tapped two of our legendary Well-F**ked All Stars, Jeff and Jim, who’ve both been on the podcast several times—solo and with their partners.
We talk about:
- their lives with porn,
- when they were most likely to use it
- and then having porn-free existences once they began living in Anami Land.
Before we chat with them, I’ll go into what I see as being the top five problems with porn.
There are numerous other ones, but we’ll cap it at these ones.
Kim’s top 5 reasons to give up porn
1) Self-devaluation.
Let’s assume, as we do in Anami Land—that your sexual energy represents the highest, most refined, powerful, creative energy you have at your disposal as a human being.
Constantly ejecting it, in the most base-level situations, reinforces self-loathing.
And because sexual energy is SO powerful, you are imprinting and wiring that idea into you.
And wearing it.
That’s why heavy porn users have an aura of shame and embarrassment about them.
They know that what they’re doing is a self-devaluation.
And then they wear the weakness of succumbing anyway and that’s what they carry around with them internally AND the signature they radiate out into the world.
2) Sexual messiness is unattractive.
There’s this huge conversation right now about women’s body counts.
I’ve never seen so much focus on this before.
And this derogatory phrase applied to women who have some arbitrarily decided number that is “too high” which deems them “ran through.”
But apparently, this only applies to women.
There doesn’t seem to be any concern for the amount of women a man has slept with.
So beyond that hypocrisy, let’s say that every encounter a man has with a woman online, that he jerks off to, whether she’s pre-recorded or live, counts as a “body”.
What does that bring a man’s “body count” to now?
In some circles, we would say that whether you are fucking someone in real time, or jerking off to them in the ethers as you IMAGINE fucking them, you are still completing the act with them on an energetic level.
Lack of self-discipline in anyone is unattractive.
I’d say it’s especially unappealing in men though.
Because one of the archetypal expressions of masculine energy is to be focused, directed and accomplished.
Jerking it left right and center to anything with tits is the opposite of that.
It’s saying you have zero—less than zero—self-value and discrimination about where your energy is going.
I would wager that all these guys out there—especially in the so-called red-pill, mano-sphere community, who go ON AND ON about female body counts, are actually projecting their own sexual messiness out at women.
We talk about this later in the episode, but the amount of red-pill girl, right-leaning, hot Only Fans accounts I see on Insta shows us that there is a HUGE market for this niche.
Meaning, I’ll see women come through my feed, going on about some alt-conspiracy theory, libertarian ideas, sounding pretty on it.
I’ll check their profiles, and they have OF accounts, amongst the flat-earth, fluoride-free, anti-immigration content.
These women wouldn’t be out there in such great numbers, if these guys weren’t eating it up.
And more specifically, jerking off to it.
***
I think the deeper message than just hating on people for having what whoever decides is “too many partners” is the idea that WE KNOW deep down that our sexual energy is potent and magical.
Throwing it away and being careless with it is a waste, but also:
It’s sacrilege.
I know that sounds like a religious angle.
But the word means “a violation or misuse of something that is sacred”.
And that’s exactly how I’d see it.
A misuse of something sacred.
3) Cultivating your energy and saving your seed.
This is the whole argument for semen retention.
Not only is the energy as “chi” itself valuable, but all of the fluids that your body is building for every single ejaculation—you know, = to be able to create a new life every time you pump one out—is a massive effort for your body to produce.
This idea has been written about for millennia, in various cultures all over the world.
The admonishments about “spilling seed” weren’t moral ones; they were cautions about the tax and drain on a man’s body.
This has become so prounounced in modern times, with the easy access to porn, that we see MULTITUDES of balding young men out there.
Guys in there 20s who have NO BUSINESS being bald at such a young age!
In the Taoist writings, they talk about how excessive ejaculations lead to degenerating overall health, concentration, mental focus, and, yes, BALDNESS.
And for those of you who want to argue that “UH KIM IT’S GENETIC DON”T YOU KNOW ANYTHING” I’ll argue right back that “UH WANKER, DON’T YOU KNOW ANYTHING” genetics is a predisposition to an expression that YOU have to bring into existence.
Meaning, you could have a whole list of potential negative GENETIC expressions, but your lifestyle choices in real time are going to decide whether those things come to pass in your life or not.
So if you are constantly jerking off, and challenging the health of your body and system, AND you have that genetic predisposition, then yeah, there’s a good chance you’ll go bald.
I’ve talked about a client I had years ago. He was a really obvious case and I’ve since seen hundreds/thousands to back it up.
A 22-year-old kid who literally lived in his parents’ basement and had been jerking off every day, at least once a day, since he was 12 years old.
Completely. Bald.
Maybe just a tiny patch of hair, but he was already shaving it, because you know, he’s a baldy.
Does every wanker—every guy with a porn habit go bald?
No. You’d have to have that genetic predisposition.
Even if you don’t, that constant drain on your system will show up somewhere else in your body and health.
4) Dopamine/testosterone depletion.
All that ejaculation is depleting you of precious minerals, neurotransmitters and hormones, not the least of which is your dopamine and testosterone.
This will impact your energy levels, and your overall aura.
It turns you into a beta real fast.
5) And a cuck.
You, watching other guys fuck hot women reinforces to you that YOU aren’t fucking them.
But someone else is.
Or if it’s an interactive experience, you are paying a woman to pretend to be sexually interested in you.
It’s cowardly, cuck behavior and again, you wear that in your energy field—and your hairline—for everyone to see.
***
Let’s get into it with our Well-F**ked All Stars, Jeff and Jim.
KIM: Hey, guys! As a special occasion today, we’ve got two of our iconic Well-F**ked All-Stars Jeff and Jim here for this truly insightful conversation about all things porn.
Hey, guys, welcome.
JIM: Hi, Kim
JEFF: Hi, Kim.
KIM: Let’s start out with what has been your relationship to porn over the years? Whoever wants to go first.
JEFF: You can go first, Jim, if you want to.
GenX porn
JIM: Okay. I think it started off—like I’ll put it in quotes—“innocently,” like being very, very young and seeing like Grandpa’s Playboy collection. There’s a story I was just telling Jeff where I remember specifically at my grandfather’s funeral, and me being—I think he passed away when I was in fourth grade. We were at his house while all the adults were either at the wake or something like that. A couple of cousins might have been like sixth grade, seventh grade, but back then they had these things called hot boxes where you could get all the cable channels, like HBO, Cinemax, but also the Playboy Channel.
I can remember in fourth grade seeing like boobies on the TV because the cousins had the Playboy Channel on while the kids were—
KIM: At the funeral! [Laughs] In tribute to Grandpa and the most powerful memory they had, which is his Playboy magazine collection.
JIM: Yeah! At the fucking funeral, right?
But what I’m saying is like even then, like the very first experience, I feel like were more innocent and not knowing. It’s not like we were titillated or had like—understood the feelings. Then, obviously, when you get older, living at home in high school, there’s no way that you’re going to have porn.
Then I think getting into college we had basically like a quad where like four dudes had two rooms and I believe we split a subscription to Playboy.
And then, just I think, when the internet rolled around, that made it more accessible.
KIM: So hang on, were you guys sitting here and watching this stuff together?
JIM: No, it was magazine. Like we had a subscription to magazines. Yeah.
KIM: Oh, a Playboy, oh, okay, a subscription to, okay. Getting ahead of myself with technology.
JIM: Right. [Laughs] So I also remember growing up in probably the ‘90s, like early ‘90s, late ‘80s, video stores and the cowboy doors and just seeing like—just remembering like how taboo that was. It was unwritten that you knew what was behind those doors, but you didn’t go back there.
As far as like my relationship to porn, it was never—I was never in a place where it was like you know how you see these guys that are like, “I’m not going to drink for all—I’m doing a dry January just to prove to myself that I can not drink.” I never had an addiction like that to pornography, but it was something where I didn’t have a lot of girlfriends, I was not a ladies’ man, and it was there for just pure quick pleasure.
I think that that, like even in my marriage, rolled around like when we weren’t happy, you just go watch some porn and take care of yourself.
My probably most famous story from the podcasts are our marriage was in such a rut that when we went through Coming Together, we both, as we were clearing the glass and doing some of the exercises, it had come up that we—I would be upstairs in my office here and my wife would be in the bedroom and I had no idea that she even watched porn, but she did, and I did, and we’d be doing it at the same time.
I think it was, looking back, anytime that you’re really using stuff like that, it’s just like lower form of consciousness and you’re in your carnal mind and stuff, but it’s not—like I never had the situation where it was like I had withdrawal or I was constantly watching it or there was like a huge problem.
KIM: Got it. How about you, Jeff?
JEFF: So I think I’m a little bit older than Jim and I don’t know that it really matters. Like I’m GenX, so I’m born in the ‘70s. Also, my background, we were like a very conservative, Christian household.
KIM: So there was lots of porn available, right? Like in the basement, just giant boxes of it labeled by category. [Laughs]
JEFF: Probably. Actually, no. No. It’s kind of the opposite of that. I was brought up, raised to think like all of that stuff was not okay, right? And to be honest with you—this is like a whole other podcast to talk about my father and things like that—but I never found any porn in my house. And I think my parents had like a decent relationship, but it was like behind closed doors, and we never saw any of it, is what I’m trying to say.
We were like raised to be pretty reserved and like back then, I think my first sight of like a naked woman, other than my mother breastfeeding my sister, was like Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom, and it’s like native women in Africa, or the underwear section of the Sears catalog.
Did every young boy find porn mags in the bushes?
And like any other boy, you get to a certain age where you’re like, “Oh, shit, I like to look at that,” and you don’t even know why. Back then, it was like riding BMX bikes in the woods and finding piles of rained-on porno mags. There was no internet.
KIM: That is crazy. That feels like such an urban-legend kind of story, like going into the bush and finding these jerked-off-on magazines, but you’re saying legit you did!
JEFF: But we did, man! I swear to God they were there. I’m not—like every boy tells the same story [laughs] but it’s all real.
KIM: I never found them! I was running around in the woods all over the place. I never found any of these magazines.
JEFF: Well, you’re not a boy, Kim! [Laughs] You should’ve hung out with us, you would’ve found them. Anyway, like that. I never took them home. It’s like, oh my god, like it’s you found like something like a dead body, you know what I mean? It’s like this is hands off, you can’t—
KIM: Sort of like you found—what is it in Indiana Jones? What is he looking for? What’s that thing?
JEFF: Oh, the ****
JIM: Yeah, they were trapped in. [Laughs]
JEFF: So it’s, I don’t know, honestly, the first masturbatory memory that I have, I think I was 12. When I figured out that that’s a thing. And it was like an accident; it’s like a crazy story. And then I think all boys and girls—and I think girls can start that much earlier—it just becomes like part of your life and it’s a thing you do.
And I would, without jumping ahead, as you become a grownup, you continue to do this. And it gets to the point where—and I would never say I had an addiction with that—it just became part of my routine. You wake up in the morning, you go and pee, you have a cup of coffee, and at some point, maybe right after that or before you go to bed that night, you masturbate.
KIM: And at what age are we talking right now?
JEFF: Well, I wasn’t drinking coffee when I was 12 [laughs], but maybe 12 it became more of like a novelty and it happened more often. And I mean, I was fully aware that I was heterosexual at a young age and that I like women. I think I liked them even more than at the age that I’m at.
I did have girls involved in my life from an early age and the porn thing was kind of just like filler in between her. Even though you have her, that’s still a thing that goes on. When you’re a kid living with your parents, she’s not there every day. Teenage boys, man, it’s like four or five times a day this has to happen, or could, so the porn fills in the gaps, I guess.
KIM: So is how frequent it was for you? From around that age? Like around the age of 12?
JEFF: At times. Yeah. And like throughout teenage years and there was girlfriends interspersed throughout that. But I got to say, I never really went through a period with a girl where it was like banana sex every day like 100 times a day. We didn’t do that. I didn’t do that.
Jerking off to porn and hiding it from your wife
This followed me into my life. I’ve been with Jen, my wife, since I’m 20, and I’m 52 now, so that’s a long time. We were basically big kids when we met. And I was still doing that when I was with her and she lived with me. So like we could do this whenever we wanted, but—
KIM: So was that when you were with her and doing that, was that something you would do secretly? Like you would go off and—
JEFF: Yes, absolutely. She had no idea. She didn’t know.
KIM: Okay. Right.
JEFF: And it was purposely kept secret. I didn’t want her to know. Some of it was just my imagination.
KIM: Why? Why? Why not? Why did you not want her to know?
JEFF: Because I was raised to think it was bad and like it wasn’t—and she wasn’t involved. I felt like I was cheating on her. Some of it—I don’t say it was emotionally I was cheating, but having memories of other girls, using things in my imagination. I didn’t really have any magazines. I think I had a video tape, and I won’t say who it was but it’s like—
KIM: JJ? [Laughs]
JEFF: No, I follow her on Instagram, I love her. She’s a great person. I think it was Janine Lindemulder, if you know who that is. She’s like the hottest woman in the world. She still is. She was on the cover of that Blink-182 album as the nurse pulling the—you know what I mean?
KIM: Oh, right, right, yeah.
JEFF: She’s covered in tattoos. She’s hot, man. I liked her. Anyway, and I also—I was like an avid comic book collector for most of my life and I had a lot of adult stuff. It was porn, but it wasn’t used for that. I’ve always been into kinky things.
Anyway, Jen had no idea that that was going on. And unlike Jim and Meg, Jen claims she never did that, used internet—well, used porn in her life. And I believe her, I don’t think she did. I don’t think she could figure out how to even work the machine to watch anything. She’s like not very good with tech stuff. She says she’s never logged onto porn to watch in her life. We have together as a couple, since meeting you, just to see what’s up with this? Is this something we’re interested in to watch together? And it’s not really a thing.
Anyway, this was something that was like kept secret from her. It just became this humdrum part of my life, and I wouldn’t say it was a problem. I was still involved with her, I wasn’t going to the computer instead of Jen, it was just filling in gaps in our kind of shitty, boring sex life, and now my life is anything but that and I don’t really look at porn. I don’t have an interest to because I don’t need to.
So I’ll stop talking there if you want to ask a question.
JIM: Can I just comment real quick, too?
KIM: Yes.
JIM: I just think that was as really good point about underwear magazines because the Victoria’s Secret magazine, Stephanie Seymour was, I mean, I used that thing—
JEFF: Oh my god, I love her.
JIM: Right? So the idea of like classifying what is porn? Even Instagram today like with sultry stuff can kind of be considered porn. So I think you’re exposed to that stuff so early and as Jeff so eloquently mentioned, that when you’re a kid, man, and you find out that your cock works, you kind of grab anything before you know kind of what you’re doing, it’s like to pass the time in between, like if you had girlfriends and things like that.
I think that’s another kind of fascinating facet of this whole thing.
KIM: What’s interesting to me in hearing you guys say this, is the kind of—almost like a void where there—part of me would consider that to be a deliberate one—where you’re coming of age sexually, you’re starting to discover yourself and feel into these things. But there’s no guidance about what to do with that. The only thing—it’s literally like magazines planted somewhere for you to find and that starts your sexual journey, which like puts you in a particular direction.
Look, when I say this, I want people to know really clearly, I don’t use these words out of any kind of moral judgement. It’s more about what is the higher use of energy that builds us and nourishes us, versus something that can be depleting for us. I would call, let’s say the use of that, and then the pull of toys, that is more lust-driven. Like a superficial, kind of titillation hit. It’s not a deep, nourishing experience.
Again, I don’t have any moral judgement, I don’t care. We might care like drawing a broader conclusion, like what does that mean for society? What does that mean for intimacy in relationships? Which is why I find it like really actually fascinating to think about these, like, “Who left them there?” and were they actually put there deliberately?
I have a more conspiratorial mind pretty much, like every conspiracy I’m signed up for. So I would look at that think, “Huh.”
I’ve used that analogy with porn, where it’s so ubiquitous, it’s free, it’s so accessible, it’s like a rat coming up to some cheese in a trap and being like, “Oh my god! Look, it’s free food! It’s free! Let’s eat it,” “Oh, my gosh, it’s here again today and how can one of our friends go missing every day? I don’t know, but oh my god, it’s free cheese, let’s eat it.”
Like no thought about—almost an—and this is not a frame that I ever use, but like a Christian lens of temptation and like are these things put in front of us for a reason to—for us to make—and the spiritual concept of discrimination. Discrimination, like is this thing elevating for me and spiritually nourishing? Or is it something that ultimately diminishes me?
And as a child, there’s no concept of that. It’s like, “Oh, candy! Oh, yeah.” You have to get told by your mom, “Like when the stranger offers you candy in the big, white van, like don’t take it.” But you’re like, “It’s candy! It’s free candy! Why wouldn’t I take it?” But you have to be told that. You have to be guided.
So the fact that there’s this gap then and in my work, in my world, in Anami Land we talk a lot about the role of parents in educating their children. Like you are the first people to provide that information. Because if you don’t provide it, anything and everything else will.
It just strikes me in hearing these stories that there’s this big gap that leaves children, especially boys, I think more vulnerable and susceptible to whatever comes their way. Random magazines in the woods, whatever it is. Yeah.
JEFF: One other thing I would interject, too, just to kind of like paint the scene from my era, is back then, masturbation was something everyone hid from each other. You would get made fun of if somebody found out, and I know you know what I’m talking about, even the girls. We didn’t talk about that the way they do today.
So we might have, a bunch of boys, found these magazines, like, “Holy shit, look at this,” and then someone would tease the other one. “I bet you’re going to go home and do this…” Like jerk-off used to be an insult. It was a negative thing.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: I have two kids that are 21 and 19 and I know through their generation, that is not the case anymore. This is openly spoke about amongst kids in school and no one gets teased for it. The whole world has changed.
So you ask me, like “How come you didn’t tell Jen about this, Jeff?” That’s part of it because it was beat into my head that you’re not supposed to do this. There’s something wrong with you if you’re doing it. Meanwhile, every motherfucker in the school, including the entire staff, is doing this. You’re all lying. Everybody’s masturbating.
Is porn use a form of infidelity?
KIM: Well, I think the additional point though with you being with Jen is what you’re saying. Like you’re looking at other women, you’re jerking off to other women, even bringing in fantasies of other women.
JEFF: And that’s cheating.
KIM: I think that’s different than like a teenager discovering themselves and masturbating and self-exploring, being in a relationship where you’re not—or when you’re not—either you’re not or when you’re not connecting with your partner that you’re then going off to do this and using other people as a vehicle for that.
JEFF: Absolutely. And with our children, me and Jen, who are Anami disciples and have just shed all the shame of anything connected to sexuality, we actually had personal conversations with our own children about masturbating. Like, my parents never did that. I actually talked to my mother about it recently, which is crazy, but she didn’t do this for us. That was not the way the world worked back then. Parents didn’t talk to their kids about this. If you got any kind of education about sex at all you were lucky, but to talk about masturbating? I don’t know anybody that grew up with that.
So that was part of why you would keep it hidden and like the other point you just made, if Jen knew I was looking at other women, she’s going to think I’m cheating on her, and she did think that. After we talked about it, now she understands that it’s more like those aren’t people. It’s just a visual thing. And I’m not defending porn, I’m just saying that’s what it would’ve been back then, in our twenties.
KIM: I mean, I think this is where you get into a deeper consideration of what porn really is. There’s a big spectrum of ideas and beliefs on this. Like someone might say, “They’re not real, it’s innocent, you’re not hurting anybody.”
But I think in a more sophisticated level, we could look at there’s still an energetic connection that’s being formed. Whether you’re literally in touch with that person or not, but you’re—again, this is depending on someone’s view of the world and other planes of existence—but there’s an interdimensional connection. You’re energetically connecting with them. They’re leaving themselves available and open to that. That’s the agreement in someone doing porn. Then connecting into that energy with them on some level.
Some people might think that’s super woo-woo and they don’t believe it. Other people would be nodding emphatically, like, “Yes, I get that.” [Laughs]
So to each their own in terms of your beliefs. I would be leading more into, I guess, an energy or an intention of impeccability and that all of those things can’t—certainly not the same as going out and physically having sex with another person, but there’s a—if we’re really consciously monogamous, we bring all of our emotional and all of our sexual resources to our partner.
From what you were saying, the reasons—and everything I’ve always heard—the reasons that doesn’t happen is when there’s gaps in the relationship.
Like Jim’s example of when they weren’t connecting they were literally in different rooms in the house, both jerking off to porn, independent of the other person, instead of fucking each other. That energy gets dispersed out when really, presumably in a marriage, the intention is to bring that energy to each other. But people get lost along the way and detours and it becomes like a release valve that’s a soft form of—I don’t think I’d go so far as to call it infidelity, but it’s an energetic misalignment. Like a displacement of energy that is better brought and served and kept in the container of a consciously-monogamous relationship.
As for both of you, when your relationships became stronger and more connected and more Anami-fied, so by definition we mean that you were more emotionally connected, you were more sexually connected, and because of the two, you’re reaching higher levels of heart opening and sexual ascendency, then what’s the correlation there with that? Reaching those places? And then your porn use? Or your even desire for these other outlets?
Lack of truth in a relationship leading to porn use
JIM: I think that, to kind of weave in a little bit of what you were just saying, I think the lack of truth in a relationship can lead to porn. In Anami Land we’re talking about truth this whole month and it being an aphrodisiac and I really think that when you’re not honest in your relationship and you’re telling white lies and it all builds up and like the glass is no longer clear, that leads to no spark and then the temptation to—or before Anami, the use of porn because you’re not getting everything because you’re afraid to hurt your partner’s feelings or you can’t say this, you can’t say that, or you don’t know how to tell the truth, or you’re just not even truthful with yourself.
I think that’s a huge part of it, so once you go through the Anami Land, and especially Coming Together, when you have that connection of clearing the glass and there’s a deep sense of trust and heart opening and all that kind of stuff, it’s not even on your radar. Like unless you want to look something up, like, “Hey, how’d they do that?” [Laughs] Right?
KIM: [Laughs] Can a woman really squirt 10 feet across the room? Is this for real?
“We have so much sex I don’t need porn. She’s my porn star.”
JIM: Right, yeah. [Laughs] It’s like other than that you don’t really need it because you’re so satisfied and fulfilled on that higher-consciousness plane that there’s no room for it in your heart for it. I’m with you on like the energetic side of things and I also think that it’s—who knows why those people are there in the first place and all the trauma that they have and why they’re doing that and etc., etc. And it’s just like a toxic suck of energy, which once you go through your courses and you live in Anami Land, like that energy becomes so—like you become so aware of how carnal that energy is instead of like the higher consciousness of having that relationship and sex and all that kind of stuff and the stuff just becomes awesome as well and so satisfying. So there’s really no need for it.
KIM: Jeff, anything you want to add to that?
JEFF: Yeah. It’s like, I mean, we have so much sex I don’t need porn. That sounds so simple, like such a simple answer, but it’s really true. Before Anami, and like if everybody knows who me and Jen are, we’re like the people that don’t miss a beat with the sex date thing. Since I’ve met Kim, we’ve had sex four times a week since day one. I mean, once in a while we miss one and have to reschedule, whatever, but it’s pretty much rock solid. It’s always there and that’s enough.
I don’t need any filler in between. If I did, there’s an unwritten rule that a quickie is—it’s not even like a question. She’s going to have sex with—she’s going to do anything I want to do. She is my porn star. She lives with me. I don’t need to log into something, I just need to tap her on the shoulder and—you know what I mean?
KIM: Let’s talk about that for a moment because one could say, “Okay, she is my porn star,” and someone might see that in a derogatory way. But I think a deeper message in that is a woman who’s perpetually open and available to you and wants you and wants you to do everything to her in the most high form of surrender.
Anytime, anywhere sex
Like that would be the most powerful archetype from that is like she’s totally down for it. Because that’s basically what porn is. There’s no seduction, there’s no coercion, there’s no tit for tat, it’s like, she’s there. She’s there and she wants it all the time.
So in Anami Land, that’s what we’re looking to cultivate is this perpetual, anytime, anywhere. I literally use that phrase with couples, especially with women, that that’s the measure of their openness and connection with the partner is that you’re both always up for it, down for it, whatever, all around for it, upside down for it.
Madonna/whore with your wife
JEFF: Like we talk about the Madonna/whore thing and like that was very heavy for us. I would use porn in the past to—I want to see things that I wish I could have. I want to be able to do that. It’s like fantasies that you could ever do this to your wife. I can’t come on my wife’s face, that’s my wife, are you kidding me? And now I’ve created a fucking demon who she is like possessed by this. I’ve given her permission to be that woman and she’s her.
I’m like downplaying it by saying she’s my porn star, that sounds silly, but all the things that I would be looking for to watch, she will do it. She wants me to do that. She wants to—I mean, she’s a fucking savage. I’m not even going to get into all the things, but she is down for all of it. I’m like, “How did you never log into porn, but you know what the fuck that is?” You know what I’m saying? Because she’s fun, man. She’s in.
KIM: I love this! This is a great observation to connect that with the whole Madonna/whore thing because that’s one of the major blocks. Every single religion hammers it into people’s brains. Every movie has a token hooker in it just to remind you of this dichotomy of the good girl and the bad girl and the whore is going to do everything but the good girl kind of won’t.
It’s like everywhere we go, it’s just fucking relentless. Yeah, it’s usually—and it’s a theme for men and women. Men talk about it in women and judge women for it. Women judge themselves. And that’s the thing—not that I’m saying we should be promoting and encouraging whore-ness in women—but there’s a medium ground in healthy, voracious, sexual expression that women aren’t allowed to have. They’re put into either one of these two categories, Madonna/whore.
Then to emerge out of that and create that healthy, powerful, middle ground is an effort for both people. Then, like you said, giving her permission so she knows you’re not judging her and you’re all about it and she’s not judging herself and she’s all about it.
I love that because I think that’s a huge thing that again, the kind of illusion of porn is that that woman is those things. Well, she’s, I guess, “whore” version of it, but it’s a perpetual yes, because we can never have that with our partners. And because that’s so systematically drilled into people, men-people, too, that, “Oh, well, it’s not even possible. It’s just normal. That’s life. She will never do that, but I can get it from Candy on Channel XXX. Candy is always there for me. Candy will do anything. Candy loves me. Candy loves my cock. I never have to talk Candy into anything.”
JIM: I think like a healthy male, masculine, divine masculine, desires naturally. I think it’s wired in us, that uninhibited woman in the bedroom.
Now, as we learn through all your courses, it’s up to us to create that environment, create surrender, and as Jeff was just talking about with them, to give permission in such a way.
But I think—and Jeff, correct me if I’m wrong—I think that’s just wired in us. Like that’s what we want. We want that uninhibited, just free and, I don’t know, like carnival sex.
Women are naturally more insatiable than men
JEFF: Yeah, like the wild woman, we all want it, and I think we’re all at different levels of our own masculinity and our ability to handle it. Like a lot of men, I even—not you, Jim, but other men that I’ve met through Kim, that we were in like couples calls with, when we’re all together, the co-ed one, where some of the guys are like not complaining but they’re like, “Man, she wants sex all the time now. I don’t know if I can hang.”
And I know what they are talking about, so you need to figure out your own levels with this thing, and some women might be too much for some men. Their drive and their freedom, their self, where they’re at in their journey.
And me and my wife are a great match. We belong together, for sure.
KIM: It’s funny, I was just writing about that. Either it was last week’s episode or this coming week, about how men come into Anami Land and they’re so used to having to beg for sex and their women don’t really want sex, or they don’t seem to like it that much. They have to be swindled into having it.
Then they come into Anami Land, the women get awakened and the women are actually more insatiable than the men. Once you turn a woman on, she’s inexhaustible. Men have to work hard to keep up, and they have to build the skills and the stamina.
I hear that many a time. The men are like, “Holy shit, now I have to work really hard.” Like you said, you created a monster and an unstoppable fucking sex machine monster that there’s no off switch. She will one-up you every time. It’s like, “All right, you got what you asked for and then some, times a thousand. So buck up, man, because now you’ve got to meet this.”
Anami Land sex is far wilder than anything in Porn Land
JEFF: Yeah, and you just—the different things—not to get off topic, but the different orgasms and things that her body, and the pleasure she can feel, once you look behind the curtain and find out, like, holy shit, the things you—like the woman in the lotus seat floating across the room. Like there’s these magical people that can have these crazy things. And her body is just—she’s just lucky she’s born that way. Nuh-uh. You all can do this and when you learn that, porn is like way down here.
You don’t have cervical orgasms—and I mean, I don’t have them, but I facilitate them, and that doesn’t happen with porn. That’s different. That’s a different level of attentiveness and intention.
I am starting to get pretty good with the separating ejaculation with orgasm. I’m sure you’re happy to hear that because I sucked at it for years. But something happened the other night where I was having like this volcanic eruption kind of thing of energy happening to me—I was on a sex date with Jen—and I did come but it was like—ejaculated—but it was like later. It was fucking bananas. That doesn’t happen with porn. That’s something you need to get on this cosmic journey with the opposite sex and build this thing and then that good stuff starts happening. I would never trade that to go back to like 15-year-old Jeff with like ruined porno minds. That’s like stupid.
KIM: With double D, fake titties, and platinum blond Candy.
JEFF: Yeah, it’s just goofy. And like porn in general is just kind of lame. It’s like, like I said before, I honestly may use some of it to look something up, I want to show Jen something. We are into like some pretty crazy kinky shit and I’m like, “Look at this, would you do this?” And she’s like, “Yeah, I want to do that.”
So in that sense, porn is great, you know what I mean? We’re not watching it, I’m just showing her like a tutorial on something. There’s a lot of crazy sex positions that you need to show somebody, you can’t explain it. The Amazon position is one of them and everybody should look that up and go to the gym and get fit so you can do that. [Laughs] Yeah.
So porn is like not necessary in my life anymore.
JIM: Think about what you just said, too, about how the fantasies change, too. Like when you’re ripping one to Jenny McCarthy in Playboy, you’re thinking of just, I don’t know, like that sex you see on like porn. You’re not thinking about the lotus woman floating across the room and having seven orgasms and floating on a cloud by the time you’re done and you’re having energetic orgasms or prostate orgasms and things like that. It’s a completely different fantasy now.
JEFF: Right. Yeah.
KIM: For sure. I mean, if there’s a spectrum, then we would put porn—and I say that, like it’s the lowest level sexual experience people can have. If we’re doing 1-10, it’s probably like -5. I mean, if I’m being generous, I’m giving it a 1.
Then what you describe there, this sort of transformational, lifechanging cervical orgasm, orgasm without ejaculation, Anami Land sex is the 10. Where you’re deeply connected and intimate and then these other things are just very poor substitutions. And also don’t know what you don’t know until you—like people who might be defending porn, I think it’s just they’ve never gotten past a certain level of what’s even possible to know. Then when you do, you’re like, “Oh!”
It’s like if you’ve only ever eaten gas station food your whole life and someone takes you for a Michelin Star meal and you’re like, “Oh, my gosh, I didn’t even know food could taste like this. I didn’t know that I wouldn’t leave and need to pass out. I wouldn’t know that I would be, like my gut would hurt after every meal.” All these things. You’re like, “Oh, there’s a whole other universe out there.
JIM: I think looking back on it, like with porn use and things like that, I think that I was aware of what it was doing energetically but could never put it into words. Like now that I think about it, in college when you smoke a ton of weed or something and the next day or whatever, you’re depressed. Like you don’t know, like why—and like the same thing with porn when I was using it was like energetically I knew like something was off like the next day or just something. And I was aware of that, but I could never articulate it until going through your classes and learning everything in Anami Land.
KIM: What else would you say about that, both of you? Like that perspective of being beyond it and now having a more objective lens to look back and say, okay, can you see what other impacts that might have been having on you as a man and on your relationship?
JEFF: I would say, like kind of what Jim just said, like if you did like use porn and masturbate to porn, at the end of it, there’s this kind of like shame feeling. It’s almost like you’re cheating on a diet. You’re trying to walk the straight and narrow and then you like ate the ice cream and you just like feel terrible. And nobody saw you, but you know it about yourself.
I kind of feel like that happened probably later on in older years and now, especially—I don’t really do that anymore. So it doesn’t happen anymore. Like I said, we have so much sex, but I know I would feel like that. Like I was supposed to save this for her, I shouldn’t be doing this. And now, if I did do that, I would tell her. I’d be like, “I fucked that, we were supposed to do it together,” and we still will be together but like some of the drive is gone.
Like I’m trying to keep my libido up here so I’m like in the pursuit of her, the simmer. Keep everything in hot pursuit of her and if you have some release in between, it’s taking away from that and I don’t want to do that because we don’t have sex anymore, we practice it. It’s like—I don’t know, I feel like I’m some like elitist douche bag snob now when I talk about sex because half the people—it’s like the women that tell me I’m mansplaining that it’s—it’s pee. Squirt is pee. Like I’m just talking—I’m not going to be mean—unenlightened people that don’t understand any of this stuff.
High-level, porn-free, leak-free sex = quadrupled income
And our sex life, I know we’re in a tiny minority of people doing this and I want to honor that. Like that’s the way we do this now and I love that we’re on this mission. What has it changed in me as a man? It’s made me more in tune with everything in my life. I treat other things like this, too. I’m looking for the poetry in everything. I pretty much quadrupled my income since finding out about you, Kim. So thanks for that.
And yeah, I’ll let Jim talk, too.
KIM: Well, keep going, you can finish whatever else you want to say and then Jim can hop in.
JEFF: I think that was it. Just that it’s like this has opened the door to happiness and feeling like I matter and that this woman—that I can make her body do things, that’s a huge feather in my cap. And like I think any male wants that. We all want to please—all of us heterosexual men want to please a woman. No matter what the woman thinks, we do want that.
And if you’re not doing it, or you suck at it or whatever it is, there’s something else wrong, but we do ultimately all want that.
I hear other couples talking about how the wife will complain that the husband is selfish and it’s all about his pleasure. I think that’s just a rut they’re in. He does want to please her, I think he does, maybe he doesn’t. But I think most of us are—that’s what we want to do. Learning how to do this stuff, it’s a huge accomplishment. It’s motivating to do everything better in life, and everyone you encounter during the day, I’m a mechanical contractor and I’m pretty much the guy that’s selling everything, so I’m like a salesman, too. And everybody wants to buy whatever I’m selling, it’s just this energy. And I’m not bragging, this is real.
Everyone wants to be around a well-f**ked couple
Like people call me and Jen like the power couple. “Your guys’ energy, I don’t know what it is but man, I love talking to you two.” It’s because we have great sex. That’s why they want to be around us. I know that that’s what it is.
The energy thing you were talking about on the other plane, it’s in us. If people feel it, they don’t know what it is, but they want it. And a lot of people, when we tell them, and we pick and choose who we’re going to share this with, they run away. Like they can’t handle it. You know what I mean? Like hey, man, all you got to do is tell her. And he’s like, “Yeah, I don’t think I’m going to do that.”
People are crazy. You got to help yourself.
KIM: Yeah, the courage to make that shift and then porn becomes an easy outlet for avoidance. Because I think if people were having no sex and had no outlet, then it might come to a bubbling boiling point faster. But if they can easily—
JEFF: The thing that just popped into my head, the woman that’s sitting on the couch every—the overweight person who is on the couch every night secretly eating the tub of ice cream? That’s porn. You know you’re supposed to be doing this diet, you’re putting it off till tomorrow, you’re only fooling yourself by cheating. It’s a choice. You can do this work.
I feel like once you get into this area where this stuff is working and you’re like, “Oh, shit, I’m good at this and she likes me and she doesn’t have eyes for anyone but me,” and you even stop caring if—I don’t know. Like we’ve talked about this before, like other men looking at my wife. I used to get all like, “Oh my god, you can’t—” and I would yell at her, “Stop dressing like that! Men are looking at you!” Now I love when men look at her. That’s mine. Go ahead and try and see what happens. She’ll be cordial with everybody but she’s coming home with me. It’s just a confidence thing.
JIM: Because you know that they can’t do what you do.
JEFF: No! I mean, someone might, you probably can. [Laughs] You know what I mean? Like there’s a few of us out there, but I’m never going to see you.
KIM: Why do you love it? So I get why you’re confident with it, but why do you actually love it?
JEFF: Because I did that. I’m letting her—I know it’s the male peacock that does the feathers thing, but I’m letting her show her plumage. I benefit from what she’s doing. When she acts sexy, I win, because it’s even crazier when we go home. Nothing is going to happen. She feels fully safe acting like that. These men are not going to bother her. I think a lot of men would be like, “Oh my god, look at this woman. That’s amazing but I can’t handle that.” So there is nothing to fear.
It’s just a confidence-boosting thing. Like there’s no—why do I love it? I guess it’s an ornament. She’s my trophy wife and she’s happy and everyone sees it. The women who have done work on themselves and are in a good mental state, they love her. They clap for her. They’re encouraging of her and I’m aware of all the stuff now. So it’s just like our connections with other people are just different. So if an attractive man notices my wife, I think it’s wonderful. I’m not threatened by it.
JIM: And you’re not like actively trying to be polyamorous with it either, right?
JEFF: No, no. We’re a closed couple. There’s like a cement wall 100-feet high around us.
JIM: Yes. And that’s your confidence right there because you know that she can feel sexy and nothing will ever happen. Yeah. I think I can really related to the idea of putting in the work and that’s your trophy. Because it is—I think that’s what people kind of don’t understand, whether anything that you’re doing, whether you’re going to be the mechanical contractor, or Kim, when you started your business, like people just see people and think that it just happens overnight.
I used to use porn as a crutch so that I could last longer, too. I would jerk off before we’d have sex so then I would last more than a few minutes because one out of the chamber and then it will take me longer to come the next time.
JEFF: I did the same thing. I did the same thing.
JIM: And I did use porn for that. To like quick and ready myself for sex. But going through—and this is kind of looping around to my point—going through Kim’s stuff, you are rewiring your nervous system and that does not happen immediately or overnight. I think there is work there to understand and then implement everything that we learned from Kim. Which is why you can be so damn proud afterwards or next to any guy in a crowded bar and know with pretty much certainty that they couldn’t even begin to satisfy your wife like you satisfy your wife.
But that didn’t happen in an instant. Like there was like—I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about this in any of my podcast stuff—I mean, there would be like a week to two weeks where I couldn’t get hard. Like going through Coming Together because I was like, A) Resetting my nervous system; but B) Starting to understand the magnitude and like the responsibility that I had now in the bedroom and to lead and do all these different things and that was new to me.
That took me some time to like work through and all that kind of stuff but it was so fucking worth it because you come out on the other side and the other thing that we’re talking about and how amazing sex is, without porn, without crutches, without anything else, and then having the confidence to walk down the street like John Travolta in the beginning of Saturday Night Fever, you’re strutting because you know you can fuck your girl better than anyone out there.
I think that is—I mean, I can really relate to the mindset you have about that because you and I have both put in so much work to this and reached those internal orgasms and helped our women have five, six orgasms and feel like they’re floating and stuff like that. That doesn’t happen without putting in study and doing the work.
KIM: So what are you guys’ thoughts then on the overall cultural impact on men, masculinity, and relationships, with the proliferation, constant availability of porn?
Porn is turning men into betas
JIM: I think it sucks. I think it is pussifying men because they don’t have to have any balls to go up to a woman and lead a woman, or learn how to have proper sex, or learn how to properly self-pleasure yourself not for sport but for energy harvesting, and learning how to have nonejaculatory orgasms.
Educating your sons on Anami-style sex
So much so that I will say this: We know we talked about kids a little bit earlier, but I have younger kids than Jeff, and when my son turned 13, I didn’t just have a talk with him, I talked to him about the difference about what your friends are going to do when they touch themselves and masturbate and they’re going to be done in like 30 seconds and they’re going to train themselves so that when they meet a girl, to only have sex for 30 seconds. Your cock and your penis is really something of like—I always describe it as vajra, like the lightening bolt of energy and all that kind of stuff.
I didn’t call it that with him, but just how never to watch porn and don’t use it like all your friends are going to be using it. The temptation is going to be there. Not only is it crazy digitally because it’s like the footprint, but more so on if you’re going to masturbate, I want you to do it this way so that you can learn to cultivate energy and you’ll be a better athlete, you’ll be better—all the things that you do, if you learn how to do this from a young age. And you watch, watch like what your friends are talking about and how they’re going to be doing it, you have to be disciplined.
I’m really inviting him to learn and practice all the things that I learned from you. Man, if somebody helped me with that when I was 13, Jesus. I just feel like it would be like way different for me, as far as confidence and all kinds of things in my life.
JEFF: Yeah. I feel culturally like, I mean, I’m an American, and Jim is, too. We’re both East Coasters, I think, and I’m not in a rural area. We’re like right on the edge of like New York City Metro area. From what I hear from young people, especially women, like they can’t find men to date. There’s something going on with masculinity, like women are complaining.
We could talk for hours about why that is, but part of that is like the porn thing, the accessibility—I mean, like boys are learning about sex at, I don’t know, what are they eight years old and on like a phone in their bedroom? These kids are doing sexual acts that we didn’t do till we were in college. Like older kids. Like this anal sex happening at 13 years old is crazy.
No one was doing that when I was 13.
KIM: But didn’t the Mormons always do that? Wasn’t that always their thing? Yeah, yeah.
JIM: Yes, so they say that they’re virgins.
JEFF: Yeah, I mean, whatever, but from where I come from, no one was doing that. There was like that one girl that would do that. Oh my god, it was like unheard of. Now it’s like a normal thing. There’s like this hookup culture thing, and I’m not saying it’s all little kids, too, it’s everybody. It seems like sex is just like—all of it’s like—all of it’s like masturbatory. There’s like no meaning to any of it.
That’s definitely like Western society and I hate saying that, but it is, and probably everybody else’s, too. But we’re creating our own problems with this. It’s messing everything up. I don’t know if it’s a chicken or the egg thing, but people don’t know how to talk to each other. I’m around a lot of young people a lot. I’m a volunteer EMS and there’s a lot of young people that are involved in my ambulance company and I love talking to them.
Some of them know about Kim and me and Jen and like, “I want to answer your questions, man. If you want to know something, I’ll tell you.”
And like the girls can’t find boys. No one talks to each other. It’s all like sliding into DM’s and all this other stupid shit like you’re swiping right and I’m sending a message and like yes and no and looking at pictures. Which is kind of like the same thing as porn. You’re not connecting with people so there’s like a lot of energy lost there.
And I don’t know how to get that back. Technology is not going away. The only way to do it is to like me and Jim raise our sons the right way, and our daughters, and just get things back on track that way because there’s no way that once you learn this, you’re going to be like, “Yeah, I’m good, I’m going to go back to porn.”
JIM: [Laughs]
JEFF: No, you’re not. This is what you’re going to want to do. So this is messing up—the internet is ruining humanity. It just is. As we sit here on it and talk to each other. There’s definitely some good parts to it, but you need to like constantly be reminding yourself, hold on a minute, this is the path I’m on, I’m going to use this tool to like help my life.
And I think you’re a good example of that, Kim. I wouldn’t know who you were if it wasn’t for the internet, but I know you and I know you’re nodding your head at what I’m saying. You need to be connected to the earth and each other. We’re still animals, you know what I mean?
Conscious sex the missing piece in “the manosphere”
JIM: I think also, like the whole red pill-manosphere thing, like I get what they’re doing and trying to help like bring out more masculinity, but every time I hear a podcast or watch something with these guys—and I’m not going to name any names—but they’re missing this part of it to make it like really complete for masculinity. Like they talk about spinning plates and dating all these multiple girls and all this kind of stuff, but they never talk about like this high sex, like Anami sex.
That really needs to be—maybe we should do this, Jeff, and create our own new manosphere. Like this masculinity thing, and I think again, porn has a huge thing to do with it, but we’re not—you’re not going to lead all these men out of this beta behavior that they’re doing just by spinning plates and doing all this stuff with these guys in the manosphere and the red pill guys are doing.
You have to have this higher sex. You have to do all the things that we have put in the work to do, and I think that’s a huge thing, too. I think it’s a huge gap in that manosphere.
JEFF: I definitely agree with that, and I associate with a lot of very high-speed men. Dangerous guys, like high-level athletes, people that can kill you, like that—and I’m not bragging, this is like shit that I’m interested in. It’s actually how I found out about Kim. I am involved in different—I guess we’ll call them like think tanks. I’ve sat on committees. I like to kind of be involved in that type of stuff.
There is a gigantic gap between the guy that can—the dangerous—I love the concept of the savage gentleman. This is part of that. We’re missing this component. We need to involve the divine masculine in the warrior culture. I raised my son like this and if you met him you would be like, “Holy shit, that’s exactly what he’s talking—” I did it. I made one. Now we need to make more. And I don’t know how to do that.
Prostate orgasms and anal play taboo for men
It’s like you have to—some of this stuff, if I told some of these tough-guy guys that I have an Aneros prostate massager, they would be like, “Holy shit, I didn’t know he liked men!” I don’t, man, you just don’t fucking understand this.
JIM: Yeah. Think about the surrender.
JEFF: It’s a woman, my woman is in charge of it.
JIM: Yeah. Think about the surrender a dude has to have because the universe put your sacred spot and yet the only way you can get to it is through your butt hole.
JEFF: Yeah, I do it every week. At least. [Laughs]
JIM: [Laughs]
JEFF: I don’t even do it, she does it. She lubes that thing up with coconut oil and she’s in charge of the whole thing and she’ll like sit back and watch this whole show. It’s fucking awesome.
JIM: Yeah.
JEFF: That is like taking walls down inside myself and this just all kind of snowballs into, I don’t know. There’s something to this. I need to figure out how to get like the Kim—the woo-woo shit—I don’t know if you like when I say woo-woo, Kim—but these people, like we need to overlap this onto the other thing and we fix everything.
JIM: Yes. Yes.
Red-pill manosphere men terrified of women but jerking it to OF girls and then whining about women’s “body counts”
KIM: That’s interesting. I’m not by any means immersed in the manosphere philosophy. But what I do see coming out of more of this red-pill—it’s a striving towards more masculinity but it’s almost rooted—it’s like a fear/hatred of women.
JIM: Yes, it’s totally fear-rooted.
KIM: Yeah, where they’re like talking about these only fans, ho’s, and it’s like, “Are those the only women you have a reference point for? Like how much of this shit have you actually watched because you seem to treat all women—so many women are like this, like you have to have body counts and a lot of sexual shaming. Like I’ve never heard so much information about body counts and women.
Although, look, me and my generation growing up, it’s like what’s the biggest insult you could ever call a woman? A whore, a slut. Even if you don’t know anything about her sexual insult. The first insult that a man would go to. So it’s woven in to try to shame women for sexual expression.
But these guys, like there seems to be even more fear, even more threat about it, which tells me, okay, so that’s your fear. You feel threatened, that maybe you did grow up on that, jerking off on porn a lot, and now you’re trying to forge something different, but it’s like, “I still feel so much animosity towards women.”
JIM: They got hurt really bad in a divorce and now it’s like, “I’m going to have multiple chicks and do all this kind of stuff.”
I think you’ve hit the nail—I’ve never really heard anybody say this outside of you, but it is complete like fear and emotional hurt. That’s what this thing is based off.
KIM: Yeah. And that’s pretty clear because it doesn’t feel like it has integrity. It doesn’t feel honest. There’s, like I said, like a violent undercurrent to it, actually. And still Madonna/whore. So then still trying to paint this picture of like the trad wife who’s at home washing your socks and she’s only had sex with you—like I don’t know what the ideal body count is, but I’m pretty sure it’s one, it’s you. Like you’re the only one that it should be, from what I can pick up here.
And so something that that is just fully—okay, that’s not the way. There’s something different, which is I think what you guys are saying, some overlay of a higher use of sexuality, which there’s seems to be so limited that all they can see is the Madonna/whore version of it where there’s all these OnlyFans ho’s and then there’s like my trad wife who’s only ever fucked me and then she’s going to be at home, never going out because—like it’s almost like the radical religious element of like no men can ever look at my woman. Let’s clothe her in a sheet so no one can ever look at her.
An energy that’s like that where I’m like, okay, so where’s the middle ground of you guys having lifechanging, spiritually-enlightening sex? This high, psychedelic, transformative, which is the definition of Anami sex. That yeah, I think they seem—you don’t know what you don’t know. Not only are they rejecting, I think, some kind of uber-sexual idea because of where they’ve come from, their own experiences with porn and OnlyFans girls.
Have you seen how—we were talking about this—so these women have been coming up in my feed lately who are really hot and they’re talking about super-red-pill stuff. Super-red-pill stuff. They’re like these red-pill, honey-pot, OnlyFans girls. They’re talking about all these conspiracies, and then you go to the—and I’m like, “Wow, this chick is really on it and she’s super-hot.” I’ll go to their profile, and they have an OnlyFans link.
There wouldn’t be so many of these OnlyFans women out there trying to snag the red-pill guys if there wasn’t a huge, enormous market for it if these guys already weren’t consumers of the genre.
JIM: Yeah, that’s total porn and it sells, OnlyFans. It’s porn, right? Yeah.
KIM: Yeah. Oh, it’s porn on demand. It’s like a web-cam girl.
JIM: Yeah, except you make requests. Send me your feet. [Laughs] Yeah.
KIM: Yeah. And a lot more. But this is—yeah. I think, again, it’s the don’t know what you don’t know, but then it’s coupled with a layer of fear. Like there’s this fear and judgement that’s some kind of self-protection. Like you said, they’ve been hurt in some way. Like some OnlyFans girl said they would marry them and then they didn’t and now [laughs] it’s like, “The stripper said she loved me.”
JIM: [Laughs]
KIM: [Laughs] But they have such hatred that it’s like—
JIM: A lot of them come from like a marriage of 20 years and they took half my shit, and I’ll never do that again. Like that’s the other fear.
KIM: But I feel like that’s a next generation. Like I think this manosphere stuff, I think, is a lot of twenty-something guys. I think.
JIM: Oh, I’ve seen like some 40, 50-year-old dudes, too, that they’ve been through the ringer. But they still don’t get it. Like why did your wife leave? It’s 150% responsibility like on both sides. Were you really satisfying her? It’s the story of like he was out working his balls off and he wasn’t there, so she didn’t appreciate him and then cheated and took half his stuff.
When okay, if you’re going to provide for her and all that stuff, that’s great. But you know what? You also have a duty in the bedroom, for simmer and all that other stuff in order to keep that relationship going as well.
So these guys, I feel like, are basing this whole—like the older red pill dudes—are based on shitty versions of relationships that are rooted in low-class, porn-type sex where their women probably aren’t satisfied, they’re not demons. Like they haven’t created like that monster in their wives to be like so satiated and just full of serotonin about their men.
So that’s, again, why we need that overlapping of these two genres because they’re coming from like a false premise. Like that their relationship actually was good in the first place and they had nothing to do with it.
KIM: So let’s wrap up here. Anything you want to close out on and say that we haven’t said or final parting words?
JEFF: Just that I would invite all men, especially younger men, to check out Kim’s work and learn about this kind of stuff and that it doesn’t have to be—whatever you’re doing, if you’re living in this porn world or you have OnlyFans subscriptions or whatever you’re doing, I don’t know, I’m imagining some like twenty-something-year-old kid lives in an apartment and this is his life at night. He goes home and he’s like these digital women on a screen.
It doesn’t have to be like that; it can be real. There is going to be some work that has to happen. It’s not a subscription-based thing with Kim where you’re going to buy something and all of a sudden this is what your life’s going to be. There’s work to do.
Porn prevents vulnerability
But once you start showing some vulnerability to women—like that’s a word I didn’t really understand until—probably until recently—what that actually meant. I don’t ever want to be vulnerable. I am a martial artist, and I trained to fight and like my jobs is security of my family and I’ve got to be able to hurt people, right? That’s not what vulnerability means.
It’s about vulnerable like in your heart. Opening up and letting her in. Porn is like kind of keeping you from that, I think. It most likely is.
We need men to look inward and do some work on themselves and get involved with women that are doing the same thing and like everything is going to get better. You can have all of the things that you’re seeing in porn you can have in front of your face with an actual real person that’s committed to you if you put the work into it, together.
And she needs to, too. She needs to make a conscious decision about what it is that you two are working towards and your life can be more than just like coming in a fucking tissue like in front of a computer screen. You know? I don’t know. It’s like you’ll actually start thinking about when you’re like ejaculating and I’ll tell you something else, after working with Kim, talking about squirting across the room, I can fucking come projectile, and I’m 52 years old. There’s something to that, too. It’s the energy that’s just behind all of this thing. You can get your body to do unbelievable shit at any age.
I don’t know. I wish people would give this a chance and let this overlap onto the way our society runs now and things would just be better. Women would stop saying, “Hey, I can’t find men to date. What are you doing? Where do I find them?” If we could fix all this stuff, I don’t know, we would have it all figured out. Yeah.
KIM: Love it. Thanks, Jeff and Jim.
JIM: I would just like to add, or just say that porn is a lifeforce suck, it really is. There’s really no need for it in your life except for, again, if it’s tutorial and you’re trying to figure something out. I will say that there were a couple of awesome movies that we learned some BDSM-type stuff from that were like soft-core-type stuff and they were educational. That’s fine.
But if you’re doing this to jerk off and just get a quick fix, it’s a lifeforce suck. You don’t know it or maybe you can’t articulate it, but it’s just draining your lifeforce energy. Kim’s way is the way and join us all who are part of Anami Land, if you’re watching this, and continue to tap on Kim’s shoulder to have a new class for kids of like teenagers and things like that to teach them about this because if I had never been through Anami Land and learned the Anami way, I would never have talked to my kid the way that I talked to him.
We need so many more people and I hope that when you’re listening to this, if this finds you, to please check out Kim’s work, learn this stuff, put in the work, and then pass it to the next generation. It’s that important.
JEFF: Yeah. Also, I was going to make another point, too. I didn’t mean to sound like I’m saying don’t masturbate or don’t, like we like to say, self-pleasure. I’m just saying don’t waste it into a computer screen on someone you don’t even know. You can do solo self-pleasure practices without porn. Get out of your head and into your body and start feeling things and moving energy around and look into Taoism and look into Kim’s work and you’ll start to learn that your body can do things that sound like magic. I don’t know, like it’s not supposed to—it’s bizarre. It’s really unbelievable.
KIM: Fantastic. Thank you so much, guys, for being here. Always great to get your insights and stories.
JEFF: Yeah, thank you.
JIM: Thanks for having us, Kim.
***
Jim and Jeff talked about their evolution out of porn and into channeling all of that energy into their relationships.
Both of them went from places of less connection and even full estrangement with their partners, to being deeply, wildly intimate through their work and play in Anami Land.
If you’re single, you can do this through conscious self-pleasuring and overall building of a life and aura that creates massive self-confidence IN you AND is attractive to women.
The lie of porn is that you aren’t wasting and then wearing the effects of all that depleted energy.
But you are.
I teach conscious self-pleasuring and energy harvesting practices in my Sexual Mastery for Men Salon.
You can REwire yourself so that you USE your sexual energy to FUEL your life, channeling it into your relationship, your body, your career and your family.
As it was meant to be.
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Once you eat at Michelin starred restaurants, and clean, organic food, you don’t go back.
Once men learn how to fuck their women into oblivion and orgasm without ejaculation, they don’t go back to being two-pump chumps who come and bail in minutes.
Once women learn how to have cervical orgasms, they don’t go back to clitoral ones.
Anami Land and my Sexual Mastery for Men Salon are the ultimate up-levels for every angle of your intimate relationship: from emotional to sexual, you’ll learn everything you need to know to become a champion Supercock.
The salon opens next week!
In the meantime, you can signup for my FREE masterclass on How to Grow Cock Organically.
Go to kimanami.com/stamina to signup.
